Show Notes
- Words And Not Much Esle (Astha's Podcast on Spotify)
- @asthaprakash (Astha on Instagram)
- Meetup.com
- Girls Gone International
- 10 Types of Odd Friendships Youâre Probably Part Of (Wait But Why)
- Bumble BFF
Transcript
Jae:
[0:09] So Welcome! Hello!
Astha:
[0:11] Hi!
Manuel:
[0:12] Hello, Astha! Our first ... Am I pronouncing your name right? Astha?
Astha:
[0:16] Yes, better than most people here. Yeah, it's Astha.
Jae:
[0:18] Really? Astha.
Manuel:
[0:45] Let's talk about it. Let's find you some friends.
Jae:
[0:49] Yeah. So tell us what inspired you to reach out to us? And like what is your story?
Astha:
[0:57] Sure. So I am really new to Berlin. I moved about four months ago with my husband, and it kind of happened randomly, like there was no plan to move to Berlin. In fact, we weren't even thinking of moving anywhere in Europe, you know. We always wanted to move out of India because we had spent pretty much our entire lives there and we wanted to, you know, have new adventures and things like that, but we weren't sure where we wanted to go. And then the pandemic happened, so we had no plans at all. And then my husband was working with a German team, so he got fascinated by the idea of moving to a place like Germany. He loves French, so he was also, you know, romanticizing the idea of maybe moving to France. So he just started looking at openings on LinkedIn, and he started applying, and I was like: That's, I mean, okay, whatever ... That's not how it works, but ...
Manuel:
[2:00] Where in India were you based?
Astha:
[2:02] So we were both working in Hyderabad, but we are from different cities, like I'm from near New Delhi, he's from Bangalore, so north and south. But yeah, so he applied to this Berlin-based startup, and they reached out to him and one thing led to another. I mean he interviewed with them and it went really well and they sent us a job offer. And we were like: What? What's happening? Like this is so weird, do people actually just hire people like that? And I think post-pandemic, this is happening quite a lot.
Manuel:
[2:42] Can I ask what his qualifications are? Because we talked about how it can be extremely challenging to find a job. But also, depending on your job, you know, it might be easy.
Astha:
[2:51] Yeah, so he's a technical writer, so it's like a specialized skill. Like you need to be a really good writer but you also need to understand the tech world, work with developers. So it's more on the tech side, which is why there was like a shortage of skills like that.
Jae:
[3:08] Yeah, he has a niche type of thing he's doing.
Astha:
[3:09] Yeah, exactly. So they sent us the job offer and then we applied for the visa, and they were helping us with the visa and the relocation. And it was all so surreal! Because in my head, I was like: What's happening with ... ? What ... ?
Manuel:
[3:25] "What is happening? I'm being moved to a different continent!"
Jae:
[3:28] "What happened? Everyone is moving here ... "
Astha:
[3:29] Yeah, and then when we got the visa, it was like: Oh God, it's really happening! Like this little piece of paper is like kind of changing our lives! And then suddenly, you know, like if you imagine like a stop motion montage of just like our furniture getting packed up and us just leaving the house and saying goodbye to our families, and just getting on a plane to come to Berlin. And all of this happened within three months, so it was so sudden. And then when we landed in Berlin we were like: How did this background change for us so drastically?
Manuel:
[4:04] Wow! Had you ever visited Berlin before? Because Jae, at least had been here on like a one-week trip and fell in love with the city. You just moved here, sold all your stuff, I suppose, and just moved your entire lives here without ever having visited the city.
Astha:
[4:22] Yeah, yeah, so we hadn't ever visited Germany. We had visited other countries in Europe, like we had been to Prague, Belgium, Amsterdam, Paris, all that, so I knew what Europe is like. So I was excited. And it's such a different world. I mean, when we landed here, I mean, for the first two weeks I was like a delirious puppy, just like: Oh my God, look at that! And like ...
Manuel:
[4:48] That's how I felt in India, by the way, so ...
Astha:
[4:52] Oh yes, you visited India, so you know how different it is, right?
Manuel:
Jae:
[8:19] Yeah, one hundred percent.
Manuel:
[8:20] I do the same thing, and I don't have migratory grief! What's the difference between migratory grief and culture shock?
Astha:
[8:29] Culture shock is when you have interactions, or you see things and you're like: Wow! I had not expected things to be this way! Migratory grief is the very tangible loss that you begin to feel, that I don't have access to the people I had. And little things, like I started missing ordinary things like the type of spice that I don't get here. And I never gave two shits about that spice before, but just the fact that I don't have it here ... Or if I'm listening to a song that I know, I grew up with, and then I feel like: Oh, I don't have that shared context here anymore.
Jae:
[9:14] So many times, so many times. Yeah, no. I get that.
Manuel:
[9:17] You make a joke and no one gets it.
Jae:
[9:18] Yes. Yes. The references. Like the spices is a big thing, such a big thing, but ...
Manuel:
[11:40] Yeah, so I feel like I'm someone who is prone to feeling lonely in general, but I didn't realize what it would feel like when I move countries and then deal with like a completely blank canvas, right? Like I have to start over. And with your old friends, like in India, first of all it's a different time zone, and secondly I've lost that shared context with them. So when I have to tell them about something, I have to explain everything. And it's exhausting! And I'm like: It's fine. And there's so much to talk about. You lose that closeness with your old friends.
Jae:
[12:27] Yes. Yes.
Astha:
[12:28] And then when you meet new people here, it's a lot of work because you have to tell them everything about your life, and it's slow, and you're also overwhelmed and taking care of so many things, so you don't have a set of close friends that you're talking to.
Jae:
[12:47] Mm hmm. One hundred percent. Oh my gosh! If I have to explain some of my story one more time, I'm just gonna start giving out cards if you want to know where I'm from or whatnot! But you made a great point. I was just talking to my friends back at home yesterday and I was explaining to them some of my challenges here, and it was literally me having to go: Okay, so basically this is how it is here. Because you have to lay out the lay of the land, you have to give them the context of that, and then you have to like then tell them the stories where they understand. It's a lot of work. And then vice versa with people here, you have to lay out your lay of the land, give them context or whatnot. It's a lot of effort, and sometimes it can be very exhausting.
Manuel:
[13:27] And then the most frustrating part - let me know if you agree - when I was an exchange student in the US for one year and then I came back, I experienced kind of reverse culture shock, where, for one thing, I just was a little brainwashed and thought everything was better there than it is here. Like it took a while for me to gain this intercultural competency and just to see these things are different and you know there's good ... Like it takes time. I was seventeen, obviously. But the thing that is maybe related, is people asking, "So how was it?" and then not really wanting to hear about it. Like they just want to hear: Yeah it was good, like it was fine. I was in San Francisco whatever, and they're like, "Okay, cool!" yeah, and like not being able to relate at all with the deep, deep, profound experiences that I had made and not really wanting to hear about those. Like that was really, not frustrating, but like a little disappointing almost, yeah, where you have this really profound experience and people don't really care that much and can't really relate.
Astha:
[14:33] Yeah, exactly! And you know, even if you try to tell people what you're going through, they can't understand because it's not their lived experience. And it's difficult, you know.
Jae:
[14:46] It's very difficult. And one of the things that's been very much of a challenge for me, is like I talked to my parents about all the things that I'm going through here, and most of their response is always, "Oh, you can just come back." And I know I can come back, but it's something much deeper thank that. Like, "No, the answer is not to come back. I just want you guys to listen, understand that I'm going through obstacles right now, you know?" And that's like another challenge thing is like I want to talk to my old friends and my family who know me well, but they can't help me problem-solve in a way where they don't know anything about this situation, and there's so much of a gap. And then vice versa here, people here can't help me problem-solve because they don't know my experiences or the situation I'm going through as well. So in a lot of ways you do feel lonely, and one of things I was thinking about was there's a lot of different types of loneliness, you know. You have the social loneliness, but also you have, like for me - which we're gonna talk about in a future episode - but I've encountered at least three racist experiences already in this city. And that's a certain type of loneliness because I have not a lot of people to relate to in those senses. Another loneliness is trying to find a house or find a place to live, you know? Yes, everyone's struggling that with that, but you still feel alone in going through those things. Another loneliness, getting like comfortable with the city and your own perspective, you know, something that no one else is going to be able to understand. So I realized that there's so many nuances to loneliness that you don't realize until you're actually here and you're actually in this. And it's so ironic because Berlin, of all places, is such a big city. It's a huge city, you know?
Manuel:
[16:30] But those are the places where you're most likely to be alone, right?
Jae:
[16:34] Yeah, one hundred percent.
Manuel:
[16:35] Like if you were to live in a village, you would probably ask to be lonely at some point, you know! I mean not all of those things, like not having people who can relate with you, would be true there as well, but in a big city you can very much just literally be alone and not talk, even if you do leave the house, not talk to, or really talk to people for days on end. And I think you see it in the big cities. There's just many people who are very lonely, and it's kind of sad.
Astha:
[17:08] Yeah, I mean if you talk about villages or small towns, the sense of community is stronger. Everyone knows everyone, you do things together. In big cities, everyone's too busy or walking too fast or just they don't seem as approachable I guess. And what you said about nuances is so true, because here, first of all I have the same problem and I try to talk to my family or friends and I tell them, you know, "These are the negative emotions that I'm feeling." They'll say something like, "But you're in Berlin! Why are you complaining?" And I'm like, "I'm not! I'm happy! I'm so full of joy for being in Berlin, but it's more complicated than that, you know, there are also like all these other emotions that I'm feeling." And then you start asking more existential questions, like I'm thinking: Who am I now in, you know, bigger context? Who are my people? What's home? And then you look different, you are different, so you feel like: How do people perceive me? Do they like me? Do they think I could be one of them? Can I be one of them? And that sense of individuality that you had in your country, you kind of lose it, because again, you're trying to fit in because you want to belong so badly.
Jae:
[18:29] Mhm. Yeah, and those existential crisis things comes up a lot. Because, yeah, like I'm not the same person I was whenever I was in a Texas, but also I don't really know who I am now here, you know. Because you're also meeting so many different people and you kind of go into this type of survival mode, you know? Because you you want to adapt to as many people as you can. Like I was out with one of my friends yesterday, and then we ran into a guy - like we're both gay, and like you know, I have like a certain way I act with him - and then the other guy started talking to us and he was straight. So my friend called me out for subconsciously acting more straight around this person, because I'm trying to like ...
Manuel:
[19:14] Context switching.
Jae:
[19:15] Yes, yes, yes. I'm trying to like subconsciously just tried to adapt to the type of person. So in that sense then I'm like by myself, I'm like: Who really was I in that sense of things? Because I am both of those types of things, you know. Like it's not even that I was acting more straight, it's just the way my mannerisms and so with that ... kind of change. So you get very confused about yourself here, you know? And it's like I want to be comfortable with that confusion and not knowing what's all going on, but then also I want to figure it out as well. But it sometimes takes time, but then always - I don't know if you've figured this out, I think about this too - but it's like: How much time should I take to figure it out? How much time is okay to feel lonely in the city? How much time is the right amount of time, you know?
Astha:
[20:10] Yeah. That's one thing that I've been telling myself: Be patient, slow down, it's all right not to have, you know, strong bonds for a while. That happens through nurturing and giving time and energy to relationships. And it's only been four months!
Manuel:
[20:30] And honestly, I mean, I am a little bit special ... I mean I am special! But I'm also a little special in the sense that I probably really enjoy being alone more than most people. And I very vividly remember living in the US, living in Switzerland, living in Poland, the first six to eight months of those experiences, I was also very alone and lonely. And I enjoyed it so much! I just remember really loving this. Like I was surrounded by people but I didn't have any strong connections, just like what you're describing, and I really enjoyed it. But the other thing that I've learned from my own experiences, and so many people moving to Berlin and even Germans moving to Berlin have this feeling of: I'm just lonely here in the beginning, and the problem always takes care of itself. Like I'm sure we'll address some things, some specific things that you can do, obviously, to make the process go faster, but I think even if you don't try at all, you can't really help but after maybe a year have kind of a circle of friends that you have a connection with.
Jae:
[21:45] That's very true. But then though, I would also add to the whole ... going back to those different types of loneliness though, that only solves ... Like for me, I know that I'll figure things out socially, right?
[21:55] But how do you deal with the other parts of the loneliness things, you know? Like for me, I'm the only black American from Texas that I know, you know. That's ...
Manuel:
[22:06] That will change in thirty years when Germany is much more diverse than it is now. I mean you guys are helping making Berlin more diverse, but it's so true, like it's still, if you compare it to New York City, or even London, it's just a very white city.
Jae:
[22:25] Yes.
Astha:
[22:26] I was not expecting this, because I have been to places like Singapore and Dubai, where you literally like see every type of color of person, everything. And here, sometimes I've gone to places where I haven't seen a non-white person. And it kind of makes you feel a bit uncomfortable because you feel like you want to see people who look different.
Manuel:
Astha:
[23:03] That doesn't bother me because we stare, too!
Jae:
[23:07] Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh!
Manuel:
[23:08] I mean, Germans stare in general. Like it's a thing for Germans to stare, it's a stereotype, that's true. But I've heard from many black people that they get stared at as if they were like: What's happening? It's crazy.
Jae:
[23:23] I'm just, I'm tweaking the narrative. I'm just saying that because I'm so beautiful! Yes, but I think, going back to this idea of loneliness. yeah, I think it does work itself out, but it it doesn't, I'll just be honest, it doesn't make the "now" easier to go through, you know. Like there's still so many times where I miss ... I feel like just lost, you know, I feel, in this limbo period. And then in these moments, the reason why I don't like these moments, because that idea of: Do I go back home? starts to speak louder and louder, you know, at the most vulnerable times. That's when it's like: Do I stay and hold on to it? And: How long do I stay and hold onto it? How long do I try to see how things go, before I end up calling it quits, and stuff like that?
Astha:
[24:17] Yeah, I hear you. I mean I hope you don't.
Jae:
[24:20] Yeah, no I'm not! It's a challenge for me at this point now. Like, I just want to beat the game!
Astha:
[24:25] Yeah, exactly. Yes, when people tell you, "It's going to get better. This too shall pass," it doesn't help you if you're in the depths of feeling despair and loneliness. It doesn't help. At that point you want someone to come sit with you and be like: I know, I understand.
Jae:
[24:52] Yes. So after my husband got a job, I quit my job and I started looking for jobs as well. And I didn't know there were so many startups in Berlin. And so I'm in marketing, I'm a content marketing manager. So when I started looking for jobs on LinkedIn, I saw that many of them wanted German speakers, but about like 30%, 40% people were open to the idea of having a native English speaker. So I applied to all of them, and I heard back from quite a few of them actually. It was amazing. I thought it was going to take me months to find something, but I got a job before we moved to Berlin. So it was just like I was ...
Manuel:
[25:39] Amazing! You too! Man, you guys have figured it out!
Jae:
[25:42] Ironically the job part was the easy part! It's everything else that was the like terrifying ... the life part, you know? Like typically it's the job that is always the obstacle. But in this city, it was like that, you know? So yeah, so do you work from home? Or do you go into the office or whatnot?
Astha:
[26:04] The life part. Yes, so it's a remote first job, so I work from home, I also have the option to go and work from office.
Jae:
[26:10] Gotcha. Mm hmm.
Astha:
[26:11] So I prefer working from home because I get distracted really easily, so I can focus better at home. But I go to office for all the parties, to meet people!
Jae:
[26:23] Yes.
Astha:
[26:24] Yeah, so it's been really good. I mean that that whole flexible lifestyle is really working out for me.
Jae:
[26:30] Mhm. That's really good. And have you ... like I know you say some people have come and gone, but have you picked up on any potential friendships or whatnot that you do see, that can become like deeper or whatnot through time?
[26:44] Yes. But it's hard to predict right now where these friendships are going, because they're all still very surface-level right now.
Jae:
[26:54] Yes, yeah.
Astha:
[26:56] It's not like I've bared my soul to anyone yet!
Manuel:
[26:59] And are they with other expats or are they with Germans?
Astha:
[27:04] More with expats, because when I moved here I joined these international groups. So there's a Facebook group called Girl Gone International, which is a women-only thing. But it's super fun. There are so many people, they're just planning picnics and parties and, you know, so many events keep happening within that group. So that was one. And then there's another one called International Friends in Berlin on Facebook, so a really cool bunch of people. And that's been good. I found more international people in those groups because they're meant for expats.
Jae:
[27:46] Yeah, I haven't done that yet actually.
Manuel:
[27:47] I mean, there's so many groups like that on Facebook, I'm sure also on Meetup. I've also used these groups when I was new in the city. There's also like New in Berlin, or these kind of "New in" groups and I mean obviously it's a really easy way to meet people without also feeling awkward, because everybody knows nobody, nobody knows anybody. But it doesn't mean that you're going to become friends with those people, right? And the problem is that Germans so often have their circle of friends often from their school days or kindergarten days. Like even, yeah, some of my best friends are from the time that I went to school and then university, that's also where you may meet a lot of friends, and then from a job that I had for many years, but these days I don't feel the need to find new friends, so ... and I think most people who've grown up here don't, and so they would never go to these groups. And then the people who go to those groups are obviously also coming and going, and going back, and I think it's just harder, you know, than if you just ... I think if you come here to study, it's probably a lot easier.
Jae:
[29:09] Yes, that's what I've always thought about, like if I was a student here, because it's like the one thing that I realized that makes it easier to make friends is if you have a neutral thing that you guys have to do routinely.
Manuel:
[29:23] Right. That, and there's a really great article or blog post from Wait But Why. Do you guys know that blog? Yeah, he's really good. And he has a thing about how friendships happen, and he has like a whole theory about it. And one of his theories is that you need a lot of time that you're spending without any goals or kind of expiry date. So like going to the movies and then going home, or having dinner and then going home, those things are great when you're already friends, but they are not enough to form a friendship. What you need to form a friendship is just extended periods of time where you just hang out, essentially. You're just in the same place by necessity because of school or because you're studying together or work, and you're not really doing anything. That's a good basis for a friendship.
Astha:
[30:20] That's so true. When you're doing the mundane things like errands or chores together, or getting bored together and seeing your highs and lows.
Jae:
[30:28] Yeah I mean that's what friendship is. I mean at a certain point, friendship, it just becomes you chilling with each other and stuff. And that's all we all want, I think, it's just people just to chill with and be comfortable with and that's why I get it when people aren't open for friendships here. I get it, because I want ... At some point you do find your clique and you're comfortable with your clique, you know. It's just really hard, like especially if you're just in that new new space of things of doing that and stuff. That's why some of those groups are really cool, because like they do have some routine type of things or whatnot. And if you go to them constantly then you'll maybe see the same black people or what not, and that makes it easier you know to form friendships as well.
Manuel:
[31:13] Yeah. And you can ... I think, I mean you're both extroverted, am I right? So I think, as extroverted people, you can take the initiative and then take it one step further. Because the problem with these meetups is they happen and then you talk and maybe there's someone that you think: Hey, this is somewhat interesting, but then nothing ever happens. And if you say like: Hey, next weekend we're going to play beach volleyball and we're inviting these three other people, like someone needs to take the initiative and make the friendship-forming happen, you know.
Jae:
[31:44] Exactly, and that's one thing that like I realized a lot and I am always that person, and sometimes it gets exhausting being that person, but it's necessary you know, and if you want to really make friends here, then you might be the one who is always putting in the effort. Now there is a certain point where you're doing it way too much, that person not reciprocating, then you should stop. But definitely in the beginnings, it's just, it's a good idea, like at least for me, I would like to say at least I tried, you know. And I think like it does help sometimes and I'll reach out to people like, "Hey, we haven't spoken forever, how you doing?" And those are good because also people just get busy, people get distracted from other things, you know. Berlin is a lot, so if you want to keep these friendships up, there's a lot of self-accountability that you have to put into place.
Astha:
[32:43] Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with right now. Like there are so many people I've met once because we went out for dinner or we had a picnic. And it was lovely and we had a great time, but no one is like reaching out to each other, and we're not ... like it's effort, and a lot of times I'm just too tired, or sometimes you're not in the mood, and it just doesn't happen.
Jae:
[33:10] Exactly.
Astha:
[33:11] So it's not organic. That's the problem.
Jae:
[33:14] Yeah, for sure. And that's one of the things where sometimes you have to wait for the organic, you know. It's like throwing a whole much of like sticky paper to the wall and just seeing what sticks, you know, which is a lot of work to do, but eventually it does like happen.
Manuel:
[33:30] And about the kind of hanging out without any agenda, like I did this for my birthday this year, where I took some of my best friends and we just went to Leipzig for a weekend with no plans, nothing, like no dinner, like nothing. We just had an Airbnb and we just hung out. We did go to one escape-room game, which was also a really good friendship experience to do that together. But that was like the only thing that we had planned and scheduled. And just hanging out, and then playing board games at night and being hungover the next morning was literally the best time I had with my friends. And so I think this stuff can be done even earlier. You know, like once you have those three people where you're like, "These are, interesting people," don't schedule the next dinner or the next movie night or the next ... Just say: "Hey, how about we take a weekend trip to the city?" And you book accommodation and nothing else, and you just literally hang out. I think that's my new theory. That's the best way to find friends.
Jae:
[34:35] Yes, I agree. And there's also one thing that I always love to do for new friends on Sundays. Sunday is a great day to hang out with new friends. It's a very chill day, very neutral day, most people aren't really that busy on Sundays. I always say: Mauerpark. Mauerpark is a really great, neutral grounds to go to on a Sunday because there's a lot going on there. You have the flea market, you have performers, you have music, you have a huge park, and you can sit and do nothing. We also can sit and do nothing and also be distracted, you know, so it's not like there's too much pressure to talk to each other or to put in so much effort or whatnot. You can literally sit there and just listen to music and be okay. And I think if you're able to find things like that to do, those are really good. Also they're free opportunities as well, because eating out, going to clubs, that adds up really quickly. You can't do that all the time as well.
Astha:
[35:35] Yeah, I love Mauerpark. It's just the vibe. And that's a good point, because before coming to Berlin, I did a road trip with two of my closest friends, and the agenda was to just have no agenda. We were just sitting by the beach, reading or meditating or not talking, and conversations would just start like out of nowhere. And we would be having this like really profound exchange of ideas and personal stories, and I was like: Wow! Like if you just give it that time, if you let it spread out over a three day period, it can be magical. And if I had met them just for a movie or lunch, it wouldn't. It would have been really just like exchange of updates and that's all.
Jae:
[36:18] Yes, but do you ever like get to a point where ... like I feel like this whole idea of no effort thing is great, right? But at least for me, I'm an over thinker. Like I never know when I need to put in more effort and when I need to not put more effort, you know? And well like I don't know if there's like a right or wrong to that, but let's say for example, we were just talking about how, you know, putting an effort to get a group together or reach out and whatnot, but then also the putting in no effort to plan something and letting things happen naturally. What do you do? Which one do you choose? How do you know which one is the best at what certain time or whatnot?
Astha:
[36:54] So I'm trying to find the balance between the two, because I realized that when I moved here, I wanted to do too much at the same time. I was just constantly in a state of FOMO, like, "Oh, that's this is happening, and that is happening, and my friends are doing this and ..." It was a lot, and I realized that I was not taking care of my mental health and I was kind of slipping into depression and I had no idea why. And I realized later, that's because I had just packed my life up and I was just doing things instead of just being still and feeling things. So I don't make the effort if I truly don't feel like it from the inside. Sometimes you're just feeling lazy and a little bit low, but you know that if you do something, if you go somewhere, you'll feel better. In those cases, I push myself a little bit and I'm like: You know what? Today, I'm just going out. I'll ask some people, let's see if they join me. But sometimes if I feel anxiety, or if I feel like, no, I don't think I should push myself today, I don't. So I'm not feeling this constant need to be around people as much as I did in the first two months.
Jae:
[38:12] Mm hmm. Gotcha.
[38:14] What about people who aren't extroverted at all and are maybe literally scared to go to one of those meetups, because then you have to introduce yourself and talk to people? I don't have the answer. I'm asking you guys.
Jae:
[38:27] What can we do for the introverts out there? It is a tricky question because I mean it really does depend on your comfortability levels.
Manuel:
[38:38] I mean there are apps now like Bumble BFF or whatever. Like dating apps but for friendships. I don't know. Didn't you write about that? Did you try that out? Okay. So what what was the experience?
Astha:
[38:49] I actually loved the experience because it's like dating but the intention is really clear that you're just looking for people to hang out with. And you can really personalize your profile and add like fun little bits about yourself. So I wrote like a really funny introduction and ...
Manuel:
[39:05] Mm hmm. Can we read it? Can you show it to us?
Astha:
[39:08] I can just tell you about it. Like I wrote about how like I'm into serial killers, like I love true crime, I consume it in every format. And then things like they asked: Are you an early bird or a night owl? And I said: I'm an evening pigeon, because like I love evenings, it's my favorite time. And just things like that so people will reach out to you if they resonate with those things. And I connected with some really cool people. Like I loved my Bumble BFF experience. and it was just easy, because over there people are looking for the same thing, like they are in the mood, they are highly intentional about meeting people. And then when you meet them, they'll tell you, "Man, it's so hard making friends." And, in fact, with my Bumble BFF connections, I had more honest and real conversations than with like these group meetups.
Manuel:
[40:11] Because it's one-on-one, right? And you're both desperate! This sounds like a Bumble ad - we're not sponsored by Bumble! But yeah, it makes sense to me, and that I think it would work much better for introverts, right? Because it's just you kind of get to know each other a little bit before you even meet, and then when you meet, it's just one other person to deal with.
Astha:
[40:31] Yeah. And in group situations, sometimes you don't like certain people. Like they're loud ...
Manuel:
[40:36] Like, right, there's always the annoying, loud person who is like ... We're trying to have a conversation here, get out!
Astha:
[40:44] Like they just talk ninety percent of the time, and they are like saying all these racist things without even realizing it.
Jae:
[40:50] Yeah, right, there's always that person. Are they American? Yeah, I think yeah, apps are definitely ... I would say that if you're like maybe on the introvert type of side, I mean Facebook groups can be good for that as well if you are able to converse behind the screen and then maybe pick out the people that you do want. I think that this city, like I hate to say it, but you got to make effort whether you're introvert or not, you know. Like Berlin is not for everybody, I just will put that out there, but it is a city that you do have to put out the effort, no matter what, you know, and it can be very daunting, very scary, and sometimes it won't always work. But like I always mention, I always say it's like there's not a reason to give up, it's not a reason to think that you're not gonna find your clique or you're not gonna find your tribe. Not everybody is for you. And to be fair, you don't want everybody to be for you. You want to find people that you relate to. You want to find people that you vibe with a lot, and it does take time, you know, it does take patience, and it does take vulnerability but also relaxing. And also knowing that it's not you, it's not your fault, and it's not something that you could be doing differently. I have that problem a lot. Myself-talk. It's really bad when I get lonely and I find that I'm blaming myself. I'm like: Why can't I find these types of people? Why am I struggling this way? Why is this so hard? Why is this happening to me? Why is everything happening to me? You know? And I think it's very important to remind yourself, that it's not you. It's not something that you're doing wrong, it's just it's a challenging situation. You know, I'm not gonna say it's bad or whatnot, but it's a challenge, you know, and challenges are challenges for a reason, you know, if they weren't challenges they would be very easy. And Berlin is not easy.
Astha:
[42:55] But I remember in one of your episodes you said that you just walk up to people and you start conversations with them.
Jae:
[43:01] I do, yes, but I think if we're talking ... but still though, that's still a lot of surface-level and that there's still a difference though of having those conversations and then becoming friends. You know, I can talk to strangers like that. That's never the hard part for me. It is the friendship building that's always the hard part for me.
Manuel:
[43:20] What do you think are the downsides and upsides of having moved here as a couple, in terms of finding friends?
[43:32] I'm super happy I moved here with a partner, because it gives you so much strength to just know that there is this one person. And, you know, we've cried together. Some days we've just been so exhausted and tired and we've just hugged each other. Like we depend on each other a lot emotionally and in every single way, and he has his own journey, I have my own. I mean we are having different experiences in terms of what the move is doing to us emotionally and spiritually, but we are there for each other. So for me, it's a huge ... it's comfortable to be with someone. Because if I had moved alone, I would have been a lot more, like I would have been lonely and ....
Manuel:
[44:23] Tell me about it!
Jae:
[44:24] Yes, yeah! That's really nice. Like have you guys found any other couples who are in that same position or whatnot?
Astha:
[44:34] One of my college friends is is here as well with her husband, and I know her from college. So having them just, you know, for us, they are always there for us because we just call them, and we have that shared context again. So that's also been really nice. But we are very different people. He's introverted, and I feel like I'm the one who constantly needs this outlet, and this need to express and connect and bond, and he's just like, "I'm good. You can go and do your social stuff." And he's more into tech, and like for him, a good day would be like setting up his computer or getting a new sound system. So he's like on eBay Klein ... Klein .... Finish it for me!
Manuel:
[45:21] Kleinanzeigen.
Astha:
[45:26] Yes. So he's there like looking at deals, and you know, that's him. So I don't push him, and I don't expect him to do all these social activities with me. But sometimes we do. Sometimes we do go and meet people and it's nice.
Manuel:
[45:44] It can also be a risk, obviously, right? Because if you have that person who's just always there ... I mean you sound like you have the drive to go out and find friends, but I think in many couples there's this risk to, you know: I don't need to go out and find friends because I have someone at home who I can connect with, and that's enough.
Astha:
[46:03] I know people like that, but I feel like we both have our own individual personalities and our own interests. Like he's into trains and airplanes. So he went to ...
Manuel:
[46:16] Technisches Museum.
Astha:
[46:18] Yes. And he also went to the Airbus Museum in Hamburg, and I was like: Goodbye! I'm like so not interested in that! I might go for a Spokenword Fest, and he'd just get bored out of his mind, you know. So we do those things and we also ... When we came here, we didn't want to be in a state of comfort all the time. Like I haven't joined any Indian groups because if you join an Indian group, people tend to talk about the same things, eat the same things, and just ... I mean you could have done that in India, you know. If you've moved here, I want to be around people who are nothing like me. I want to be with people who'll tell me things that I don't even know. So we make sure that we do that. Like we are always open to like new things and new people.
[47:09] Have you gone to any Indian restaurants in Berlin? And can you recommend one? Because my experience, having gone to India, is that Indian restaurants in Germany are nothing like restaurants in India. Like it's ... I mean, they have to change it to a degree because every Indian restaurant I went to in India, I told them, "No spices at all! Like nothing. Don't put anything in there!" Because what you then get is what you get in Germany if you say, "Yeah, you can make it pretty spicy for me. I'll be fine!"
Astha:
[47:42] Yeah. Yeah, for me it's not so much about the spice. Even I don't like food that is too spicy, but it's about the flavor, the right flavor. I think here what you get is the very European version of Indian food. It's like white Indian food, right? So they use like one masala, like spice which is like a mix of everything, and it doesn't taste like authentic Indian food. But I did go to one restaurant, it's called Yummy Kitchen. It had really good South Indian food And there's one more called ammAmma, which is Sri Lankan food, but Sri Lanka and India share a lot of cuisines. So we ended up having some really good food. And the waiter came and he was asking us like, "Do you like the food?" And I just went, "YES!" I freaked him out, because he was like, "Wow! That was an intense reaction!"
Jae:
[48:38] I have to add those to my list then.
[48:42] But my next question for you is, do you find that ... So you said that you don't like necessarily want to always click with maybe your people you've gotten from home with or what not, but do you find that if you need people that there are people that you can rely on or whatnot?
Astha:
[49:03] Yes. So this is another really interesting experience that I had. So I knew I was very clear in my head that I wasn't going to just hang out with Indian people, but I didn't realize that if I hang out with the right kind of Indian people, it would be such a soothing and comforting experience. Because it's not so much about: Oh, are you Indian or non-Indian? It's just like your soul should connect with that person, it's like hanging out with a human being that's like-minded but if you add the extra layer of like: Oh they're also from India and they know so much about life there. So I met someone, a friend of a friend who's Indian, and she's married a German guy and they're living together here. It was so amazing to meet her because I realized I hadn't talked about Indian politics in so long. And I feel a lot about politics and social issues, and I can't talk to anyone here because no context, right? So we talked about just culture, social issues and I felt like this is also important. Like it's amazing to meet new people, but at the same time you are going to have your roots somewhere, and how you grow up, and how you ... who you are, it's important to meet people who have that kind of background and shared stories. So I loved that experience, and I realized now I'm open to anyone who I can vibe with.
Jae:
[50:46] Yes, I'm the same exact way. But do you ever like feel though that sometimes like not everybody that you guys come from the same country with, is your friend? Like, for instance, me. Not every American, I relate to. Not every Texan in Berlin, do I relate to.
Astha:
[51:04] No. There are so many Indians I just find absolutely annoying, and I would just stay like twenty feet away from them because I know how they think and how they are. So it's true. It's just about like looking at people and realizing that, okay, they're like you, or they're nice, or not.
Manuel:
[51:27] It's not about finding an Indian person, and then you're automatically friends. It's just that if you find someone you could be friends with, and you have this shared cultural background, then it's like: Ahh! Finally I can talk to someone about this, right?
Astha:
[51:40] Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Manuel:
[51:41] Yeah.
Jae:
[51:42] It's like a double whammy.
Astha:
[51:43] Yeah.
Manuel:
[51:44] Astha, where can people befriend you on the internet? You have a podcast?
[51:49] Oh yes I do. I started a podcast during the pandemic because I was lonely again!
Manuel:
[51:57] "So I thought I would talk into a microphone!"
Astha:
[52:01] Yeah, exactly! I mean I also called my friends, and we had conversations. It's called, Words And Not Much Else. You can find it anywhere: Spotify, Apple, and also you can find me on Instagram which is @asthaprakash, which is my name, A-S-T-H-A-P-R-A-K-A-S-H, and yeah, that's it.
Jae:
[52:23] Well, thank you so much for reaching out to us and for being on our podcast. I mean like it was really ... I love your energy, yeah.
Manuel:
[52:30] And being vulnerable. Like it's really good to hear these realistic stories and not just the same three tips on how to find friends.
Astha:
[52:38] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for calling me. I'm so excited because you both have been a part of my journey from the very beginning. I started listening to this podcast when I was still in India. So I've like experienced your move to Berlin, so it's amazing! And yeah, thanks for calling me.
[0:11] Hi!
Manuel:
[0:12] Hello, Astha! Our first ... Am I pronouncing your name right? Astha?
Astha:
[0:16] Yes, better than most people here. Yeah, it's Astha.
Jae:
[0:18] Really? Astha.
[0:28] So nice to have you. You sent us an email in which you said, "I am lonely!" I'm summarizing here, I'm summarizing.
Astha:
[0:35] Oh my God, that sounds bleak! But yeah, pretty much that's what happened.
Astha:
[0:35] Oh my God, that sounds bleak! But yeah, pretty much that's what happened.
Manuel:
[0:41] And then we thought ...Manuel:
[0:45] Let's talk about it. Let's find you some friends.
Jae:
[0:49] Yeah. So tell us what inspired you to reach out to us? And like what is your story?
Astha:
[0:57] Sure. So I am really new to Berlin. I moved about four months ago with my husband, and it kind of happened randomly, like there was no plan to move to Berlin. In fact, we weren't even thinking of moving anywhere in Europe, you know. We always wanted to move out of India because we had spent pretty much our entire lives there and we wanted to, you know, have new adventures and things like that, but we weren't sure where we wanted to go. And then the pandemic happened, so we had no plans at all. And then my husband was working with a German team, so he got fascinated by the idea of moving to a place like Germany. He loves French, so he was also, you know, romanticizing the idea of maybe moving to France. So he just started looking at openings on LinkedIn, and he started applying, and I was like: That's, I mean, okay, whatever ... That's not how it works, but ...
Manuel:
[2:00] Where in India were you based?
Astha:
[2:02] So we were both working in Hyderabad, but we are from different cities, like I'm from near New Delhi, he's from Bangalore, so north and south. But yeah, so he applied to this Berlin-based startup, and they reached out to him and one thing led to another. I mean he interviewed with them and it went really well and they sent us a job offer. And we were like: What? What's happening? Like this is so weird, do people actually just hire people like that? And I think post-pandemic, this is happening quite a lot.
Manuel:
[2:42] Can I ask what his qualifications are? Because we talked about how it can be extremely challenging to find a job. But also, depending on your job, you know, it might be easy.
Astha:
[2:51] Yeah, so he's a technical writer, so it's like a specialized skill. Like you need to be a really good writer but you also need to understand the tech world, work with developers. So it's more on the tech side, which is why there was like a shortage of skills like that.
Jae:
[3:08] Yeah, he has a niche type of thing he's doing.
Astha:
[3:09] Yeah, exactly. So they sent us the job offer and then we applied for the visa, and they were helping us with the visa and the relocation. And it was all so surreal! Because in my head, I was like: What's happening with ... ? What ... ?
Manuel:
[3:25] "What is happening? I'm being moved to a different continent!"
Jae:
[3:28] "What happened? Everyone is moving here ... "
Astha:
[3:29] Yeah, and then when we got the visa, it was like: Oh God, it's really happening! Like this little piece of paper is like kind of changing our lives! And then suddenly, you know, like if you imagine like a stop motion montage of just like our furniture getting packed up and us just leaving the house and saying goodbye to our families, and just getting on a plane to come to Berlin. And all of this happened within three months, so it was so sudden. And then when we landed in Berlin we were like: How did this background change for us so drastically?
Manuel:
[4:04] Wow! Had you ever visited Berlin before? Because Jae, at least had been here on like a one-week trip and fell in love with the city. You just moved here, sold all your stuff, I suppose, and just moved your entire lives here without ever having visited the city.
Astha:
[4:22] Yeah, yeah, so we hadn't ever visited Germany. We had visited other countries in Europe, like we had been to Prague, Belgium, Amsterdam, Paris, all that, so I knew what Europe is like. So I was excited. And it's such a different world. I mean, when we landed here, I mean, for the first two weeks I was like a delirious puppy, just like: Oh my God, look at that! And like ...
Manuel:
[4:48] That's how I felt in India, by the way, so ...
Astha:
[4:52] Oh yes, you visited India, so you know how different it is, right?
Manuel:
[4:55] Totally. It's a different world, yeah.
Astha:
[4:59] Yeah, so when we moved here it was just two weeks of just pure adrenaline, excitement, anxiety, everything mixed together. And it was such a heady concoction because we had no idea what was happening. Like things were happening, we were looking at apartments, and meeting people, and doing a bunch of paperwork. And that's the story, pretty much.
Jae:
[5:24] What happened after those two weeks?
Astha:
[5:27] Yeah, that's the interesting bit!
Manuel:
[6:00] ... Things took a turn.
Astha:
[6:02] Yeah, I mean I was just sitting and I remember I was just ... had this urge to cry, but I wasn't really sad, I was feeling contradictory emotions. Like I was so happy and grateful that I got this chance, but I was also kind of mourning what I had lost. And I never felt that enough. I didn't think that: Oh my God, I was leaving my country, my friends were going to be away, my language, my food, all those things that I've known and loved my entire life, were just going to go away from me. So I think that's when I let myself feel the grief. And I talked to other friends who have also moved countries, and it's a concept. It's called, migratory grief, which is basically the loss of life as you know it.
Jae:
[6:56] Yeah, yeah. I experienced that. I think as time goes on too, this type of ... like especially when you start comparing things and how they're different here versus how somewhat easy it was maybe back at home and whatnot. I get these moments, yeah, kind of like that, where it's just like you're very grateful, you're very appreciative of everything, but also it's also like it's different and it's unique, and sometimes it's not really what you expected to be. And if you're anything like me, I start somewhat debating if it was always the right choice for me to do what I did, you know?
Astha:
[7:33] Yeah. I mean there are so many things that I didn't consider, like language barrier. And like you, I was also told: Everyone speaks English here, and then I had these really difficult conversations with people when I was using Google Translate to literally understand what was happening. The language barrier, I didn't realize how much stress and anxiety that would cause me, because I'm a social person. But I'm so uncomfortable interacting with people because I know I should make that effort and I do. I say like whatever I know of German, I go and use it on people, but it's an effort, right? So some some days I haven't gone out of my house because I just didn't want to interact. I didn't have the strength.
Astha:
[4:59] Yeah, so when we moved here it was just two weeks of just pure adrenaline, excitement, anxiety, everything mixed together. And it was such a heady concoction because we had no idea what was happening. Like things were happening, we were looking at apartments, and meeting people, and doing a bunch of paperwork. And that's the story, pretty much.
Jae:
[5:24] What happened after those two weeks?
Astha:
[5:27] Yeah, that's the interesting bit!
Migratory Grief
[5:31] So I guess something that I didn't consider when moving countries, was just the range of emotions I was going to feel. Because in the beginning it was just excitement and like: Oh my God! It's going to be an adventure, we get to travel, it'll be amazing, we'll meet all kinds of people, and we always wanted that in our lives. And in the beginning when we were busy doing things, there was no time to think or feel anything. Things were just happening. But I think around the one month mark is when ...Manuel:
[6:00] ... Things took a turn.
Astha:
[6:02] Yeah, I mean I was just sitting and I remember I was just ... had this urge to cry, but I wasn't really sad, I was feeling contradictory emotions. Like I was so happy and grateful that I got this chance, but I was also kind of mourning what I had lost. And I never felt that enough. I didn't think that: Oh my God, I was leaving my country, my friends were going to be away, my language, my food, all those things that I've known and loved my entire life, were just going to go away from me. So I think that's when I let myself feel the grief. And I talked to other friends who have also moved countries, and it's a concept. It's called, migratory grief, which is basically the loss of life as you know it.
Jae:
[6:56] Yeah, yeah. I experienced that. I think as time goes on too, this type of ... like especially when you start comparing things and how they're different here versus how somewhat easy it was maybe back at home and whatnot. I get these moments, yeah, kind of like that, where it's just like you're very grateful, you're very appreciative of everything, but also it's also like it's different and it's unique, and sometimes it's not really what you expected to be. And if you're anything like me, I start somewhat debating if it was always the right choice for me to do what I did, you know?
Astha:
[7:33] Yeah. I mean there are so many things that I didn't consider, like language barrier. And like you, I was also told: Everyone speaks English here, and then I had these really difficult conversations with people when I was using Google Translate to literally understand what was happening. The language barrier, I didn't realize how much stress and anxiety that would cause me, because I'm a social person. But I'm so uncomfortable interacting with people because I know I should make that effort and I do. I say like whatever I know of German, I go and use it on people, but it's an effort, right? So some some days I haven't gone out of my house because I just didn't want to interact. I didn't have the strength.
Jae:
[8:19] Yeah, one hundred percent.
Manuel:
[8:20] I do the same thing, and I don't have migratory grief! What's the difference between migratory grief and culture shock?
Astha:
[8:29] Culture shock is when you have interactions, or you see things and you're like: Wow! I had not expected things to be this way! Migratory grief is the very tangible loss that you begin to feel, that I don't have access to the people I had. And little things, like I started missing ordinary things like the type of spice that I don't get here. And I never gave two shits about that spice before, but just the fact that I don't have it here ... Or if I'm listening to a song that I know, I grew up with, and then I feel like: Oh, I don't have that shared context here anymore.
Jae:
[9:14] So many times, so many times. Yeah, no. I get that.
Manuel:
[9:17] You make a joke and no one gets it.
Jae:
[9:18] Yes. Yes. The references. Like the spices is a big thing, such a big thing, but ...
Manuel:
[9:25] Yes. Oh my gosh, yes, No, I'm from the South, I'm from the South! We season! But there's so many things that I've missed, or don't get, like, for example, techno. For me, like I'm learning to enjoy or learn techno, but it's not my style, you know, we don't have that in America. And I feel that loss so much because I can't ... Like I have a good music taste, I know I do. But I can't like ...
,
Manuel:
[10:00] You do! I've listened to your radio station. Is that still available?
Jae:
[10:03] Thank you. Uh ... yes ... We haven't put up an episode in a few months. It's been a rough time, y'all! But it'll be coming back soon, you guys, stay tuned. But like, I like my music taste, but here, I don't find people who relate to that music taste a lot. So I feel that loss of like people that I can relate to, people that really understand the specific struggles that I'm going through, stuff like that. I mean, the simple fact sometimes of just, like the way that I wake up on my morning routine or whatnot is completely lost because it's a different place, you know? Like I can't even get Disney+ here.
Manuel:
[10:40] Yeah, you can. Use a VPN!
Jae:
Manuel:
[10:00] You do! I've listened to your radio station. Is that still available?
Jae:
[10:03] Thank you. Uh ... yes ... We haven't put up an episode in a few months. It's been a rough time, y'all! But it'll be coming back soon, you guys, stay tuned. But like, I like my music taste, but here, I don't find people who relate to that music taste a lot. So I feel that loss of like people that I can relate to, people that really understand the specific struggles that I'm going through, stuff like that. I mean, the simple fact sometimes of just, like the way that I wake up on my morning routine or whatnot is completely lost because it's a different place, you know? Like I can't even get Disney+ here.
Manuel:
[10:40] Yeah, you can. Use a VPN!
Jae:
[10:42] Not my Disney+. Yeah, but like there's obstacles. You have to pay for that, you know.
Manuel:
Manuel:
[10:51] I can't, like I can't ... You technically can't log into Disney+ as like ... It's not like Netflix where you log in anywhere. You have to have like a VPN or whatnot.
Manuel:
Manuel:
[11:02] And I don't have HBO Max, as well. That was actually a loss for me. And then Hulu. I can't get Hulu, as well, that doesn't work with a VPN. So it's ... I know those are like small things, but like I do feel that type of loss. And then, I would say, culture shock is ... some of the stories that I've had where I'm like: Wow! I can't believe the racism, for example, something that I still deal with here, you know, and that's a big culture shock for me. So I definitely get that. I definitely get that. So one of the things that you said one of your biggest challenges with, was the idea of like loneliness or what not. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Loneliness
Astha:[11:40] Yeah, so I feel like I'm someone who is prone to feeling lonely in general, but I didn't realize what it would feel like when I move countries and then deal with like a completely blank canvas, right? Like I have to start over. And with your old friends, like in India, first of all it's a different time zone, and secondly I've lost that shared context with them. So when I have to tell them about something, I have to explain everything. And it's exhausting! And I'm like: It's fine. And there's so much to talk about. You lose that closeness with your old friends.
Jae:
[12:27] Yes. Yes.
Astha:
[12:28] And then when you meet new people here, it's a lot of work because you have to tell them everything about your life, and it's slow, and you're also overwhelmed and taking care of so many things, so you don't have a set of close friends that you're talking to.
Jae:
[12:47] Mm hmm. One hundred percent. Oh my gosh! If I have to explain some of my story one more time, I'm just gonna start giving out cards if you want to know where I'm from or whatnot! But you made a great point. I was just talking to my friends back at home yesterday and I was explaining to them some of my challenges here, and it was literally me having to go: Okay, so basically this is how it is here. Because you have to lay out the lay of the land, you have to give them the context of that, and then you have to like then tell them the stories where they understand. It's a lot of work. And then vice versa with people here, you have to lay out your lay of the land, give them context or whatnot. It's a lot of effort, and sometimes it can be very exhausting.
Manuel:
[13:27] And then the most frustrating part - let me know if you agree - when I was an exchange student in the US for one year and then I came back, I experienced kind of reverse culture shock, where, for one thing, I just was a little brainwashed and thought everything was better there than it is here. Like it took a while for me to gain this intercultural competency and just to see these things are different and you know there's good ... Like it takes time. I was seventeen, obviously. But the thing that is maybe related, is people asking, "So how was it?" and then not really wanting to hear about it. Like they just want to hear: Yeah it was good, like it was fine. I was in San Francisco whatever, and they're like, "Okay, cool!" yeah, and like not being able to relate at all with the deep, deep, profound experiences that I had made and not really wanting to hear about those. Like that was really, not frustrating, but like a little disappointing almost, yeah, where you have this really profound experience and people don't really care that much and can't really relate.
Astha:
[14:33] Yeah, exactly! And you know, even if you try to tell people what you're going through, they can't understand because it's not their lived experience. And it's difficult, you know.
Jae:
[14:46] It's very difficult. And one of the things that's been very much of a challenge for me, is like I talked to my parents about all the things that I'm going through here, and most of their response is always, "Oh, you can just come back." And I know I can come back, but it's something much deeper thank that. Like, "No, the answer is not to come back. I just want you guys to listen, understand that I'm going through obstacles right now, you know?" And that's like another challenge thing is like I want to talk to my old friends and my family who know me well, but they can't help me problem-solve in a way where they don't know anything about this situation, and there's so much of a gap. And then vice versa here, people here can't help me problem-solve because they don't know my experiences or the situation I'm going through as well. So in a lot of ways you do feel lonely, and one of things I was thinking about was there's a lot of different types of loneliness, you know. You have the social loneliness, but also you have, like for me - which we're gonna talk about in a future episode - but I've encountered at least three racist experiences already in this city. And that's a certain type of loneliness because I have not a lot of people to relate to in those senses. Another loneliness is trying to find a house or find a place to live, you know? Yes, everyone's struggling that with that, but you still feel alone in going through those things. Another loneliness, getting like comfortable with the city and your own perspective, you know, something that no one else is going to be able to understand. So I realized that there's so many nuances to loneliness that you don't realize until you're actually here and you're actually in this. And it's so ironic because Berlin, of all places, is such a big city. It's a huge city, you know?
Manuel:
[16:30] But those are the places where you're most likely to be alone, right?
Jae:
[16:34] Yeah, one hundred percent.
Manuel:
[16:35] Like if you were to live in a village, you would probably ask to be lonely at some point, you know! I mean not all of those things, like not having people who can relate with you, would be true there as well, but in a big city you can very much just literally be alone and not talk, even if you do leave the house, not talk to, or really talk to people for days on end. And I think you see it in the big cities. There's just many people who are very lonely, and it's kind of sad.
Astha:
[17:08] Yeah, I mean if you talk about villages or small towns, the sense of community is stronger. Everyone knows everyone, you do things together. In big cities, everyone's too busy or walking too fast or just they don't seem as approachable I guess. And what you said about nuances is so true, because here, first of all I have the same problem and I try to talk to my family or friends and I tell them, you know, "These are the negative emotions that I'm feeling." They'll say something like, "But you're in Berlin! Why are you complaining?" And I'm like, "I'm not! I'm happy! I'm so full of joy for being in Berlin, but it's more complicated than that, you know, there are also like all these other emotions that I'm feeling." And then you start asking more existential questions, like I'm thinking: Who am I now in, you know, bigger context? Who are my people? What's home? And then you look different, you are different, so you feel like: How do people perceive me? Do they like me? Do they think I could be one of them? Can I be one of them? And that sense of individuality that you had in your country, you kind of lose it, because again, you're trying to fit in because you want to belong so badly.
Jae:
[18:29] Mhm. Yeah, and those existential crisis things comes up a lot. Because, yeah, like I'm not the same person I was whenever I was in a Texas, but also I don't really know who I am now here, you know. Because you're also meeting so many different people and you kind of go into this type of survival mode, you know? Because you you want to adapt to as many people as you can. Like I was out with one of my friends yesterday, and then we ran into a guy - like we're both gay, and like you know, I have like a certain way I act with him - and then the other guy started talking to us and he was straight. So my friend called me out for subconsciously acting more straight around this person, because I'm trying to like ...
Manuel:
[19:14] Context switching.
Jae:
[19:15] Yes, yes, yes. I'm trying to like subconsciously just tried to adapt to the type of person. So in that sense then I'm like by myself, I'm like: Who really was I in that sense of things? Because I am both of those types of things, you know. Like it's not even that I was acting more straight, it's just the way my mannerisms and so with that ... kind of change. So you get very confused about yourself here, you know? And it's like I want to be comfortable with that confusion and not knowing what's all going on, but then also I want to figure it out as well. But it sometimes takes time, but then always - I don't know if you've figured this out, I think about this too - but it's like: How much time should I take to figure it out? How much time is okay to feel lonely in the city? How much time is the right amount of time, you know?
Astha:
[20:10] Yeah. That's one thing that I've been telling myself: Be patient, slow down, it's all right not to have, you know, strong bonds for a while. That happens through nurturing and giving time and energy to relationships. And it's only been four months!
Manuel:
[20:30] And honestly, I mean, I am a little bit special ... I mean I am special! But I'm also a little special in the sense that I probably really enjoy being alone more than most people. And I very vividly remember living in the US, living in Switzerland, living in Poland, the first six to eight months of those experiences, I was also very alone and lonely. And I enjoyed it so much! I just remember really loving this. Like I was surrounded by people but I didn't have any strong connections, just like what you're describing, and I really enjoyed it. But the other thing that I've learned from my own experiences, and so many people moving to Berlin and even Germans moving to Berlin have this feeling of: I'm just lonely here in the beginning, and the problem always takes care of itself. Like I'm sure we'll address some things, some specific things that you can do, obviously, to make the process go faster, but I think even if you don't try at all, you can't really help but after maybe a year have kind of a circle of friends that you have a connection with.
Jae:
[21:45] That's very true. But then though, I would also add to the whole ... going back to those different types of loneliness though, that only solves ... Like for me, I know that I'll figure things out socially, right?
Standing Out
Jae:[21:55] But how do you deal with the other parts of the loneliness things, you know? Like for me, I'm the only black American from Texas that I know, you know. That's ...
Manuel:
[22:06] That will change in thirty years when Germany is much more diverse than it is now. I mean you guys are helping making Berlin more diverse, but it's so true, like it's still, if you compare it to New York City, or even London, it's just a very white city.
Jae:
[22:25] Yes.
Astha:
[22:26] I was not expecting this, because I have been to places like Singapore and Dubai, where you literally like see every type of color of person, everything. And here, sometimes I've gone to places where I haven't seen a non-white person. And it kind of makes you feel a bit uncomfortable because you feel like you want to see people who look different.
Manuel:
[22:50] And do you ever ... Can I ask ... ? Have you ever felt like someone was staring at you all the time?
Jae:
[22:53] Yeah. All the ... All the ... Oh no, all the time. I tell my friends all the time, I'm like, "People are staring at me." People literally are. And I've watched people. I can count how like how long they stare at me.
Manuel:
[22:58] It's crazy.
Jae:
[22:53] Yeah. All the ... All the ... Oh no, all the time. I tell my friends all the time, I'm like, "People are staring at me." People literally are. And I've watched people. I can count how like how long they stare at me.
Manuel:
[22:58] It's crazy.
Astha:
[23:03] That doesn't bother me because we stare, too!
Jae:
[23:07] Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh!
Manuel:
[23:08] I mean, Germans stare in general. Like it's a thing for Germans to stare, it's a stereotype, that's true. But I've heard from many black people that they get stared at as if they were like: What's happening? It's crazy.
Jae:
[23:23] I'm just, I'm tweaking the narrative. I'm just saying that because I'm so beautiful! Yes, but I think, going back to this idea of loneliness. yeah, I think it does work itself out, but it it doesn't, I'll just be honest, it doesn't make the "now" easier to go through, you know. Like there's still so many times where I miss ... I feel like just lost, you know, I feel, in this limbo period. And then in these moments, the reason why I don't like these moments, because that idea of: Do I go back home? starts to speak louder and louder, you know, at the most vulnerable times. That's when it's like: Do I stay and hold on to it? And: How long do I stay and hold onto it? How long do I try to see how things go, before I end up calling it quits, and stuff like that?
Astha:
[24:17] Yeah, I hear you. I mean I hope you don't.
Jae:
[24:20] Yeah, no I'm not! It's a challenge for me at this point now. Like, I just want to beat the game!
Astha:
[24:25] Yeah, exactly. Yes, when people tell you, "It's going to get better. This too shall pass," it doesn't help you if you're in the depths of feeling despair and loneliness. It doesn't help. At that point you want someone to come sit with you and be like: I know, I understand.
Jae:
Astha's Job in Berlin
Manuel:
[24:47] And so, what's your day-to-day now, Astha? Because you haven't told us. Do you have a job here already? Like okay, what do you do?
Astha:
[24:47] And so, what's your day-to-day now, Astha? Because you haven't told us. Do you have a job here already? Like okay, what do you do?
Astha:
Manuel:
[25:39] Amazing! You too! Man, you guys have figured it out!
Jae:
[25:42] Ironically the job part was the easy part! It's everything else that was the like terrifying ... the life part, you know? Like typically it's the job that is always the obstacle. But in this city, it was like that, you know? So yeah, so do you work from home? Or do you go into the office or whatnot?
Astha:
[26:04] The life part. Yes, so it's a remote first job, so I work from home, I also have the option to go and work from office.
Jae:
[26:10] Gotcha. Mm hmm.
Astha:
[26:11] So I prefer working from home because I get distracted really easily, so I can focus better at home. But I go to office for all the parties, to meet people!
Jae:
[26:23] Yes.
Astha:
[26:24] Yeah, so it's been really good. I mean that that whole flexible lifestyle is really working out for me.
Jae:
[26:30] Mhm. That's really good. And have you ... like I know you say some people have come and gone, but have you picked up on any potential friendships or whatnot that you do see, that can become like deeper or whatnot through time?
Finding Friends
Astha:[26:44] Yes. But it's hard to predict right now where these friendships are going, because they're all still very surface-level right now.
Jae:
[26:54] Yes, yeah.
Astha:
[26:56] It's not like I've bared my soul to anyone yet!
Manuel:
[26:59] And are they with other expats or are they with Germans?
Astha:
[27:04] More with expats, because when I moved here I joined these international groups. So there's a Facebook group called Girl Gone International, which is a women-only thing. But it's super fun. There are so many people, they're just planning picnics and parties and, you know, so many events keep happening within that group. So that was one. And then there's another one called International Friends in Berlin on Facebook, so a really cool bunch of people. And that's been good. I found more international people in those groups because they're meant for expats.
Jae:
[27:46] Yeah, I haven't done that yet actually.
Manuel:
[27:47] I mean, there's so many groups like that on Facebook, I'm sure also on Meetup. I've also used these groups when I was new in the city. There's also like New in Berlin, or these kind of "New in" groups and I mean obviously it's a really easy way to meet people without also feeling awkward, because everybody knows nobody, nobody knows anybody. But it doesn't mean that you're going to become friends with those people, right? And the problem is that Germans so often have their circle of friends often from their school days or kindergarten days. Like even, yeah, some of my best friends are from the time that I went to school and then university, that's also where you may meet a lot of friends, and then from a job that I had for many years, but these days I don't feel the need to find new friends, so ... and I think most people who've grown up here don't, and so they would never go to these groups. And then the people who go to those groups are obviously also coming and going, and going back, and I think it's just harder, you know, than if you just ... I think if you come here to study, it's probably a lot easier.
Jae:
[29:09] Yes, that's what I've always thought about, like if I was a student here, because it's like the one thing that I realized that makes it easier to make friends is if you have a neutral thing that you guys have to do routinely.
Manuel:
[29:23] Right. That, and there's a really great article or blog post from Wait But Why. Do you guys know that blog? Yeah, he's really good. And he has a thing about how friendships happen, and he has like a whole theory about it. And one of his theories is that you need a lot of time that you're spending without any goals or kind of expiry date. So like going to the movies and then going home, or having dinner and then going home, those things are great when you're already friends, but they are not enough to form a friendship. What you need to form a friendship is just extended periods of time where you just hang out, essentially. You're just in the same place by necessity because of school or because you're studying together or work, and you're not really doing anything. That's a good basis for a friendship.
Astha:
[30:20] That's so true. When you're doing the mundane things like errands or chores together, or getting bored together and seeing your highs and lows.
Jae:
[30:28] Yeah I mean that's what friendship is. I mean at a certain point, friendship, it just becomes you chilling with each other and stuff. And that's all we all want, I think, it's just people just to chill with and be comfortable with and that's why I get it when people aren't open for friendships here. I get it, because I want ... At some point you do find your clique and you're comfortable with your clique, you know. It's just really hard, like especially if you're just in that new new space of things of doing that and stuff. That's why some of those groups are really cool, because like they do have some routine type of things or whatnot. And if you go to them constantly then you'll maybe see the same black people or what not, and that makes it easier you know to form friendships as well.
Manuel:
[31:13] Yeah. And you can ... I think, I mean you're both extroverted, am I right? So I think, as extroverted people, you can take the initiative and then take it one step further. Because the problem with these meetups is they happen and then you talk and maybe there's someone that you think: Hey, this is somewhat interesting, but then nothing ever happens. And if you say like: Hey, next weekend we're going to play beach volleyball and we're inviting these three other people, like someone needs to take the initiative and make the friendship-forming happen, you know.
Jae:
[31:44] Exactly, and that's one thing that like I realized a lot and I am always that person, and sometimes it gets exhausting being that person, but it's necessary you know, and if you want to really make friends here, then you might be the one who is always putting in the effort. Now there is a certain point where you're doing it way too much, that person not reciprocating, then you should stop. But definitely in the beginnings, it's just, it's a good idea, like at least for me, I would like to say at least I tried, you know. And I think like it does help sometimes and I'll reach out to people like, "Hey, we haven't spoken forever, how you doing?" And those are good because also people just get busy, people get distracted from other things, you know. Berlin is a lot, so if you want to keep these friendships up, there's a lot of self-accountability that you have to put into place.
Astha:
[32:43] Yeah, Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with right now. Like there are so many people I've met once because we went out for dinner or we had a picnic. And it was lovely and we had a great time, but no one is like reaching out to each other, and we're not ... like it's effort, and a lot of times I'm just too tired, or sometimes you're not in the mood, and it just doesn't happen.
Jae:
[33:10] Exactly.
Astha:
[33:11] So it's not organic. That's the problem.
Jae:
[33:14] Yeah, for sure. And that's one of the things where sometimes you have to wait for the organic, you know. It's like throwing a whole much of like sticky paper to the wall and just seeing what sticks, you know, which is a lot of work to do, but eventually it does like happen.
Manuel:
[33:30] And about the kind of hanging out without any agenda, like I did this for my birthday this year, where I took some of my best friends and we just went to Leipzig for a weekend with no plans, nothing, like no dinner, like nothing. We just had an Airbnb and we just hung out. We did go to one escape-room game, which was also a really good friendship experience to do that together. But that was like the only thing that we had planned and scheduled. And just hanging out, and then playing board games at night and being hungover the next morning was literally the best time I had with my friends. And so I think this stuff can be done even earlier. You know, like once you have those three people where you're like, "These are, interesting people," don't schedule the next dinner or the next movie night or the next ... Just say: "Hey, how about we take a weekend trip to the city?" And you book accommodation and nothing else, and you just literally hang out. I think that's my new theory. That's the best way to find friends.
Jae:
[34:35] Yes, I agree. And there's also one thing that I always love to do for new friends on Sundays. Sunday is a great day to hang out with new friends. It's a very chill day, very neutral day, most people aren't really that busy on Sundays. I always say: Mauerpark. Mauerpark is a really great, neutral grounds to go to on a Sunday because there's a lot going on there. You have the flea market, you have performers, you have music, you have a huge park, and you can sit and do nothing. We also can sit and do nothing and also be distracted, you know, so it's not like there's too much pressure to talk to each other or to put in so much effort or whatnot. You can literally sit there and just listen to music and be okay. And I think if you're able to find things like that to do, those are really good. Also they're free opportunities as well, because eating out, going to clubs, that adds up really quickly. You can't do that all the time as well.
Astha:
[35:35] Yeah, I love Mauerpark. It's just the vibe. And that's a good point, because before coming to Berlin, I did a road trip with two of my closest friends, and the agenda was to just have no agenda. We were just sitting by the beach, reading or meditating or not talking, and conversations would just start like out of nowhere. And we would be having this like really profound exchange of ideas and personal stories, and I was like: Wow! Like if you just give it that time, if you let it spread out over a three day period, it can be magical. And if I had met them just for a movie or lunch, it wouldn't. It would have been really just like exchange of updates and that's all.
Jae:
[36:18] Yes, but do you ever like get to a point where ... like I feel like this whole idea of no effort thing is great, right? But at least for me, I'm an over thinker. Like I never know when I need to put in more effort and when I need to not put more effort, you know? And well like I don't know if there's like a right or wrong to that, but let's say for example, we were just talking about how, you know, putting an effort to get a group together or reach out and whatnot, but then also the putting in no effort to plan something and letting things happen naturally. What do you do? Which one do you choose? How do you know which one is the best at what certain time or whatnot?
Astha:
[36:54] So I'm trying to find the balance between the two, because I realized that when I moved here, I wanted to do too much at the same time. I was just constantly in a state of FOMO, like, "Oh, that's this is happening, and that is happening, and my friends are doing this and ..." It was a lot, and I realized that I was not taking care of my mental health and I was kind of slipping into depression and I had no idea why. And I realized later, that's because I had just packed my life up and I was just doing things instead of just being still and feeling things. So I don't make the effort if I truly don't feel like it from the inside. Sometimes you're just feeling lazy and a little bit low, but you know that if you do something, if you go somewhere, you'll feel better. In those cases, I push myself a little bit and I'm like: You know what? Today, I'm just going out. I'll ask some people, let's see if they join me. But sometimes if I feel anxiety, or if I feel like, no, I don't think I should push myself today, I don't. So I'm not feeling this constant need to be around people as much as I did in the first two months.
Jae:
[38:12] Mm hmm. Gotcha.
Using Apps to Meet People
Manuel:[38:14] What about people who aren't extroverted at all and are maybe literally scared to go to one of those meetups, because then you have to introduce yourself and talk to people? I don't have the answer. I'm asking you guys.
Jae:
[38:27] What can we do for the introverts out there? It is a tricky question because I mean it really does depend on your comfortability levels.
Manuel:
[38:38] I mean there are apps now like Bumble BFF or whatever. Like dating apps but for friendships. I don't know. Didn't you write about that? Did you try that out? Okay. So what what was the experience?
Astha:
[38:49] I actually loved the experience because it's like dating but the intention is really clear that you're just looking for people to hang out with. And you can really personalize your profile and add like fun little bits about yourself. So I wrote like a really funny introduction and ...
Manuel:
[39:05] Mm hmm. Can we read it? Can you show it to us?
Astha:
[39:08] I can just tell you about it. Like I wrote about how like I'm into serial killers, like I love true crime, I consume it in every format. And then things like they asked: Are you an early bird or a night owl? And I said: I'm an evening pigeon, because like I love evenings, it's my favorite time. And just things like that so people will reach out to you if they resonate with those things. And I connected with some really cool people. Like I loved my Bumble BFF experience. and it was just easy, because over there people are looking for the same thing, like they are in the mood, they are highly intentional about meeting people. And then when you meet them, they'll tell you, "Man, it's so hard making friends." And, in fact, with my Bumble BFF connections, I had more honest and real conversations than with like these group meetups.
Manuel:
[40:11] Because it's one-on-one, right? And you're both desperate! This sounds like a Bumble ad - we're not sponsored by Bumble! But yeah, it makes sense to me, and that I think it would work much better for introverts, right? Because it's just you kind of get to know each other a little bit before you even meet, and then when you meet, it's just one other person to deal with.
Astha:
[40:31] Yeah. And in group situations, sometimes you don't like certain people. Like they're loud ...
Manuel:
[40:36] Like, right, there's always the annoying, loud person who is like ... We're trying to have a conversation here, get out!
Astha:
[40:44] Like they just talk ninety percent of the time, and they are like saying all these racist things without even realizing it.
Jae:
[40:50] Yeah, right, there's always that person. Are they American? Yeah, I think yeah, apps are definitely ... I would say that if you're like maybe on the introvert type of side, I mean Facebook groups can be good for that as well if you are able to converse behind the screen and then maybe pick out the people that you do want. I think that this city, like I hate to say it, but you got to make effort whether you're introvert or not, you know. Like Berlin is not for everybody, I just will put that out there, but it is a city that you do have to put out the effort, no matter what, you know, and it can be very daunting, very scary, and sometimes it won't always work. But like I always mention, I always say it's like there's not a reason to give up, it's not a reason to think that you're not gonna find your clique or you're not gonna find your tribe. Not everybody is for you. And to be fair, you don't want everybody to be for you. You want to find people that you relate to. You want to find people that you vibe with a lot, and it does take time, you know, it does take patience, and it does take vulnerability but also relaxing. And also knowing that it's not you, it's not your fault, and it's not something that you could be doing differently. I have that problem a lot. Myself-talk. It's really bad when I get lonely and I find that I'm blaming myself. I'm like: Why can't I find these types of people? Why am I struggling this way? Why is this so hard? Why is this happening to me? Why is everything happening to me? You know? And I think it's very important to remind yourself, that it's not you. It's not something that you're doing wrong, it's just it's a challenging situation. You know, I'm not gonna say it's bad or whatnot, but it's a challenge, you know, and challenges are challenges for a reason, you know, if they weren't challenges they would be very easy. And Berlin is not easy.
Astha:
[42:55] But I remember in one of your episodes you said that you just walk up to people and you start conversations with them.
Jae:
[43:01] I do, yes, but I think if we're talking ... but still though, that's still a lot of surface-level and that there's still a difference though of having those conversations and then becoming friends. You know, I can talk to strangers like that. That's never the hard part for me. It is the friendship building that's always the hard part for me.
Manuel:
[43:20] What do you think are the downsides and upsides of having moved here as a couple, in terms of finding friends?
Life in Berlin As a Couple
Astha:[43:32] I'm super happy I moved here with a partner, because it gives you so much strength to just know that there is this one person. And, you know, we've cried together. Some days we've just been so exhausted and tired and we've just hugged each other. Like we depend on each other a lot emotionally and in every single way, and he has his own journey, I have my own. I mean we are having different experiences in terms of what the move is doing to us emotionally and spiritually, but we are there for each other. So for me, it's a huge ... it's comfortable to be with someone. Because if I had moved alone, I would have been a lot more, like I would have been lonely and ....
Manuel:
[44:23] Tell me about it!
Jae:
[44:24] Yes, yeah! That's really nice. Like have you guys found any other couples who are in that same position or whatnot?
Astha:
[44:34] One of my college friends is is here as well with her husband, and I know her from college. So having them just, you know, for us, they are always there for us because we just call them, and we have that shared context again. So that's also been really nice. But we are very different people. He's introverted, and I feel like I'm the one who constantly needs this outlet, and this need to express and connect and bond, and he's just like, "I'm good. You can go and do your social stuff." And he's more into tech, and like for him, a good day would be like setting up his computer or getting a new sound system. So he's like on eBay Klein ... Klein .... Finish it for me!
Manuel:
[45:21] Kleinanzeigen.
Astha:
[45:26] Yes. So he's there like looking at deals, and you know, that's him. So I don't push him, and I don't expect him to do all these social activities with me. But sometimes we do. Sometimes we do go and meet people and it's nice.
Manuel:
[45:44] It can also be a risk, obviously, right? Because if you have that person who's just always there ... I mean you sound like you have the drive to go out and find friends, but I think in many couples there's this risk to, you know: I don't need to go out and find friends because I have someone at home who I can connect with, and that's enough.
Astha:
[46:03] I know people like that, but I feel like we both have our own individual personalities and our own interests. Like he's into trains and airplanes. So he went to ...
Manuel:
[46:16] Technisches Museum.
Astha:
[46:18] Yes. And he also went to the Airbus Museum in Hamburg, and I was like: Goodbye! I'm like so not interested in that! I might go for a Spokenword Fest, and he'd just get bored out of his mind, you know. So we do those things and we also ... When we came here, we didn't want to be in a state of comfort all the time. Like I haven't joined any Indian groups because if you join an Indian group, people tend to talk about the same things, eat the same things, and just ... I mean you could have done that in India, you know. If you've moved here, I want to be around people who are nothing like me. I want to be with people who'll tell me things that I don't even know. So we make sure that we do that. Like we are always open to like new things and new people.
Indian Restaurants
Manuel:[47:09] Have you gone to any Indian restaurants in Berlin? And can you recommend one? Because my experience, having gone to India, is that Indian restaurants in Germany are nothing like restaurants in India. Like it's ... I mean, they have to change it to a degree because every Indian restaurant I went to in India, I told them, "No spices at all! Like nothing. Don't put anything in there!" Because what you then get is what you get in Germany if you say, "Yeah, you can make it pretty spicy for me. I'll be fine!"
Astha:
[47:42] Yeah. Yeah, for me it's not so much about the spice. Even I don't like food that is too spicy, but it's about the flavor, the right flavor. I think here what you get is the very European version of Indian food. It's like white Indian food, right? So they use like one masala, like spice which is like a mix of everything, and it doesn't taste like authentic Indian food. But I did go to one restaurant, it's called Yummy Kitchen. It had really good South Indian food And there's one more called ammAmma, which is Sri Lankan food, but Sri Lanka and India share a lot of cuisines. So we ended up having some really good food. And the waiter came and he was asking us like, "Do you like the food?" And I just went, "YES!" I freaked him out, because he was like, "Wow! That was an intense reaction!"
Jae:
[48:38] I have to add those to my list then.
Friends From the Same Culture
Jae:[48:42] But my next question for you is, do you find that ... So you said that you don't like necessarily want to always click with maybe your people you've gotten from home with or what not, but do you find that if you need people that there are people that you can rely on or whatnot?
Astha:
[49:03] Yes. So this is another really interesting experience that I had. So I knew I was very clear in my head that I wasn't going to just hang out with Indian people, but I didn't realize that if I hang out with the right kind of Indian people, it would be such a soothing and comforting experience. Because it's not so much about: Oh, are you Indian or non-Indian? It's just like your soul should connect with that person, it's like hanging out with a human being that's like-minded but if you add the extra layer of like: Oh they're also from India and they know so much about life there. So I met someone, a friend of a friend who's Indian, and she's married a German guy and they're living together here. It was so amazing to meet her because I realized I hadn't talked about Indian politics in so long. And I feel a lot about politics and social issues, and I can't talk to anyone here because no context, right? So we talked about just culture, social issues and I felt like this is also important. Like it's amazing to meet new people, but at the same time you are going to have your roots somewhere, and how you grow up, and how you ... who you are, it's important to meet people who have that kind of background and shared stories. So I loved that experience, and I realized now I'm open to anyone who I can vibe with.
Jae:
[50:46] Yes, I'm the same exact way. But do you ever like feel though that sometimes like not everybody that you guys come from the same country with, is your friend? Like, for instance, me. Not every American, I relate to. Not every Texan in Berlin, do I relate to.
Astha:
[51:04] No. There are so many Indians I just find absolutely annoying, and I would just stay like twenty feet away from them because I know how they think and how they are. So it's true. It's just about like looking at people and realizing that, okay, they're like you, or they're nice, or not.
Manuel:
[51:27] It's not about finding an Indian person, and then you're automatically friends. It's just that if you find someone you could be friends with, and you have this shared cultural background, then it's like: Ahh! Finally I can talk to someone about this, right?
Astha:
[51:40] Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Manuel:
[51:41] Yeah.
Jae:
[51:42] It's like a double whammy.
Astha:
[51:43] Yeah.
Manuel:
[51:44] Astha, where can people befriend you on the internet? You have a podcast?
Astha's Podcast and Social
Astha:[51:49] Oh yes I do. I started a podcast during the pandemic because I was lonely again!
Manuel:
[51:57] "So I thought I would talk into a microphone!"
Astha:
[52:01] Yeah, exactly! I mean I also called my friends, and we had conversations. It's called, Words And Not Much Else. You can find it anywhere: Spotify, Apple, and also you can find me on Instagram which is @asthaprakash, which is my name, A-S-T-H-A-P-R-A-K-A-S-H, and yeah, that's it.
Jae:
[52:23] Well, thank you so much for reaching out to us and for being on our podcast. I mean like it was really ... I love your energy, yeah.
Manuel:
[52:30] And being vulnerable. Like it's really good to hear these realistic stories and not just the same three tips on how to find friends.
Astha:
[52:38] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for calling me. I'm so excited because you both have been a part of my journey from the very beginning. I started listening to this podcast when I was still in India. So I've like experienced your move to Berlin, so it's amazing! And yeah, thanks for calling me.