Winter is Coming

Transcript

Manuel:
[0:09] You know what, Jae? We have amazing listeners! This podcast is so new, so fresh, so young, still in its infancy.

Jae:
[0:12] We do, really do.

Manuel:
[0:17] And we have people buying us coffees, as they say, supporting our work, sending lovely messages. And I love this. Honestly, I mean ... If we can share this, if you don't mind, this project is like it feels on the verge of being unsustainable, because we just have so many things going on in our lives, and this is, like, something we're just doing for fun, and we're always kind of debating on how to keep it up. But we have some ideas on how to simultaneously publish more regularly and kind of reduce our workload by essentially giving you an unedited feed and not putting much work into editing. But what really motivates, I think, both of us, is the fact that people write in and say: Hey, I'm actually listening and this is valuable. And people are actually sending us money. And it's just such an amazing feeling to kind of reach people.

Jae:
[1:22] It is. It really makes me feel that what we're doing is a good thing. Even on like a small scale, people have messaged me on Instagram, which is like: Hey, just want to say that what you've talked about or what you said has been really nice and really helpful. And that's very validating. To know that the information and the energy that we're putting in is appreciated, and that people are finding it helpful, and people are finding it beneficial and finding it entertaining, and exchanging that energy back into the form of a coffee. So thank you. Thank you guys so much.

Manuel:
[2:02] So if you want to contribute in any way you can, go to everyone.berlin/contribute and you can send us a message, you can suggest a topic, or you can buy us a coffee. And one person who has done so is Kali. And they also suggested a topic which is very topical.

How to Pay For a BVG Fine from Abroad

[2:26] Is that a that the right word? What's the meaning of topical? It's just something that that's a good fit timewise, right?

Jae:
[2:32] Yeah, it's just like the top topic!

Manuel:
[2:36] Because the €29 ticket started this month in Berlin, where for three months, October, November, December, you can get a BVG ticket for €29 and then it transitions into the regular, yearly BVG ticket unless you cancel or unless our government comes up with a new successor to the €9 ticket next year, which nobody knows if that will happen. But Kali sent us a message saying that this past spring a friend of theirs was visiting Berlin and got ticketed for riding the U-Bahn without a ticket. And then they tried paying the fine, but the website was impossible to decipher. Welcome to Germany! I'm sure it wasn't the language that was the problem. I'm sure it was the website. Yeah, and it seems impossible to pay without a German bank account. Yes, I'm sure that's actually the case. And so they ended up ... They even sent an email, but they ended up basically never getting a response. So they left Germany with the U-Bahn fine still outstanding. They never paid their fine, and now they're worried that their visa application might get rejected, or that it might show up on their SCHUFA negatively. Any advice?

Jae:
[3:59] Um, I don't know if I'm the best at this because I am a rebel and I ignore all problems until I need to face them. So if I had an outstanding fine, I would act like it didn't exist and I would always, always, always play the: 'Oh, I didn't know, I'm so sorry,' card. It's is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Manuel:
[4:29] I don't know if that works in this instance. I think the ... I mean, there's literally ads on the U-Bahn saying ... like with all of these excuses, saying, like: None of these will work. If you get caught, you have to pay. I think it could go both ways. I don't know the answer, but I think, basically, yes, riding without a ticket is technically a crime, a criminal act or a criminal offence, I guess, but I don't think that there are the resources or the will to essentially pursue them, especially if the person left the country. And I don't think there's like a file, where once you then come back and apply for a visa, it will turn into a problem, and that your visa would be rejected because of this. I really, really don't think that that would happen. So I wouldn't really worry about it. I don't know. Like if it's impossible to deal with this problem in Germany, how are you going to deal with it from outside of Germany? Maybe you could ask a friend if they could still pay this fine somehow? But honestly, I wouldn't be too worried in this specific case. But I would recommend not going without a ticket.

[5:47] I mean, personally, I am all for our system changing to where tickets are free, because I think moving around in your own city should be a right that even people with very low income can afford. But until we get there politically, I would buy a ticket if you can in any way, because it just ... yeah, you will just get in trouble.

Jae:
[6:13] I was a rule-follower. I'm not.

Manuel:
[6:18] You would ... like, you know, you would like ... There is this initiative that someone founded after the €9 ticket ended. So for those who don't know, there was this period for three months where you could get a ticket for €9 per month and use all public transport in Germany - not just in one city, but in all of Germany - and it was very, very popular, a huge success. Lots of people bought it. Even I bought it, although I almost always use my bike. But €9 is so cheap. Even if you just take the coupon three times, it's worth it. And you could even take trains throughout Germany with this ticket. So it was really, really great. And now that ended in Berlin. We have this €29 initiative now, but someone founded a 9-Euro-Fonds - I guess, fund, in English. And the idea is that you can essentially donate €9 per month to this fund and then go without a ticket - which is obviously illegal. So you're still committing a criminal offence, but if you get caught, this fund will pay your ticket for you. So they're like trying to create their own €9 ticket. I think it's a fun idea in terms of like trying to hopefully push for political change. But yes, you're right, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable doing this.

Jae:
[7:45] I would love to do that! Send that to me!

Manuel:
[7:47] It's 9eurofonds.de so I'll put it in the show notes.

Jae:
[7:52] Yeah.

Manuel:
[7:53] Kali, good luck to your friend. Hopefully they don't get caught. Today we're talking about winter, which is coming.

Winter Is Coming

Jae:
[8:01] It's kind of already here.

Manuel:
[8:03] Right. It's weird. So there was like ... It felt like we skipped Autumn altogether and just went straight from summer to winter, and it was really depressing. But then somehow we did get this beautiful golden autumn where the temperatures are still nice, and the leaves are golden, and beautiful sunsets. Like I had a few days where I was cycling through Berlin, I was like: Oh, this is beautiful! I love Autumn.

Jae:
[8:33] Yes, that's actually what I've been experiencing now. I was so confused at first. I was like, it just ... like I was so excited for the Fall time, the leaves, you know, and not being too cold but, you know, enough for ... It was sweater weather, you know, That's why I was excited for it. And then it just skipped that. It was just rainy, it was crappy. It was what everyone had feared, or put fear into my mind of what the winters was like. And I'm like: Y'all gave me no time to embrace, you know, it. But it's like Mother Nature went super fast, it was like: Oh, shit. I passed up and then it was like, backing up, backing up, backing up, like: Sorry, y'all, I messed up a bit! And now we're getting nice, nice weather. Like, even right now it's been sunny, it's been cool, like a little bit cold, but like, the sun's been shining, and that's a nice atmosphere.

Manuel:
[9:23] Yeah. So let's talk about how we're preparing for the upcoming season, the famous Berlin Winter, which is kind of long and dark and depressing.

Sunlamp

[9:34] The thing that I bought a little too late for last winter, which I now have, and I've already been actively using it, is like a daylight lamp. Do you know what I mean? It's this lamp that ... it shines ... I don't know, what is it actually called? ... In German it's called Tageslichtlampe, and it's essentially a lamp that you put on your desk that just has really bright light, 10,000 lux. And the idea is you turn it on for like half an hour in the morning or 45 minutes, and you let it shine straight into your face. And it kind of gives the illusion of sunlight to your body, hopefully. And the idea is that you get a little less depressed. I don't know, it might be a little bit of a placebo thing, but I feel like it's working. So.

Jae:
[10:27] Is that healthy for your eyes?

Manuel:
[10:29] I mean, you're not supposed to look straight into it. You just kind of have it shine at you from the side while you look at the other bright light source, which is your screen! But yeah, lots of people swear by it, and I feel like it definitely can't hurt. You know, it's kind of fooling your brain into like: Okay, it's sunny. Like maybe release some melatonin. No, wait, wait. Melatonin is the one that makes you sleepy or ... Okay, the other the other one, then.

Jae:
[10:52] ... That makes you sleepy. Serotonin.

Manuel:
[10:55] Serotonin. There you go. I'll put I'll put the one I got in the show notes. I think it can't hurt. And it's just, you know, when you wake up at eight and it's still dark outside, I don't know, it's just ... it just makes you depressive.

Jae:
[11:10] Yeah, that's true. What else do people do to prepare for winter?

Winter Clothes

[11:17] I mean, obviously getting winter clothes, which is something I still have not done yet. The only reason I haven't done that yet is because I want to find like actual secondhand shops where I can get it for like dirt cheap instead of paying €60, €70 for a coat.

Manuel:
[11:30] True. True. I mean, I finally got a good winter jacket like three or four years ago, and it's really high quality. And I've been using it every winter since and it's served me fine, and I see no reason to change it. I used to not really believe in winter clothes, as stupid as that sounds, and just kind of try to layer under my super thin fake leather jacket. And ... I don't know, it's stupid. It was stupid then, and it sounds stupid now, but I was just freezing every winter. But I would always think like: Okay, but it's only a few more weeks. No, you should get like ... you should get a proper winter jacket and ...

Jae:
[12:07] You should, because layering is exhausting. And I'm doing layering right now, and it's so like annoying having to put on a shirt, and put on another shirt, another shirt, and you're still cold at the end of it all.

Manuel:
[12:19] Right. And also, like, once you actually have a proper jacket and gloves and a hat and a scarf, you realize how amazing it is to be able to be outside for more than 20 minutes and not be cold. Like for for some reason, for years of my life, I never had that. And I just kind of felt like: Okay, well, you can only be outside for half an hour and then you're freezing and you have to go inside. And that was my life. I sound so dumb. I probably was really dumb. And then once you have like a proper, thick winter jacket, you can be outside for two hours and you're still okay. It's actually life-changing.

Jae:
[12:57] That is true. That is what I will invest in. So the four things that people typically need is: a good winter coat, a hat, gloves and a scarf, you would say?

Manuel:
[13:06] That's my ... that's what I have. I think, yeah, I would say those are the basics. I still don't believe in winter shoes, really, Just because I'm a sneaker person and I feel like sneakers are ... Like, I will just have like thick socks if it's really cold and I need to be outside for a long time. So I don't have any like warm shoes really. But I guess for some people that would be essential too.

Jae:
[13:34] Yeah. I'm thinking about investing in some like winter shoes, just because of the rain sometimes. And like ...

Manuel:
[13:40] Yeah, that too. That's true.

Jae:
[13:41] Yeah. And my feet do get cold sometimes. I get cold very easily, but I've been actually conditioning myself to embrace the cold. Another thing I think is a great investment that I will be, is those ... like those hot water bags that you put like, hot water in.

Manuel:
[14:00] Yes. Warmfläsche. Yes, super German and super essential, yeah. So basically, it's exactly what you described. It's a rubber bottle and you pour almost boiling hot water inside, you close it, and then you can put it on your stomach or put it on your feet when you're on the couch or in bed. And it just ... especially this year, obviously, like making these bottles of hot water uses a lot of energy as well, because boiling water uses a lot of energy. But I think getting a good blanket and making one of these bottles once or twice a day, it will still be better than turning on the heat, which is - like my heat, like most Berlin homes - is gas, and I'm just really trying to hold out and not turn it on, for as long as I can. Obviously, once it gets freezing cold, you have to turn it on, also to just protect the pipes and stuff. Like you can't just keep it off entirely for the whole winter. But I don't want to, like, have them all set to maximum the whole day. Like I basically want to use the minimum amount of gas that I can.

Jae:
[15:16] Yeah, that makes sense, especially with inflation and everything that's going on right now. Save money, Save money, y'all, and save the planet if you can.

Manuel:
[15:23] Well ... not just money, but like, there's literally ... like if we all use too much gas, then there'll be societal problems. Like we don't have unlimited supplies of gas, and if we run out, then certain parts of industry will have to shut down, and stuff like that. Like it's not just about saving money, it's actually like the right thing to do to really try to save gas and energy this winter.

What Will the Winter Be Like?

Jae:
[15:48] Um, another thing that I would like to ask you is how was, like, the wintertime last year, and whether you predict the wintertime to be this year? Because what I get from everybody is that: Oh my gosh, winters are so bad! Winters are so miserable! and are this or that. But like, my theory is that maybe COVID also contributed to that, because a lot of things were unavailable, like you couldn't do much. So that just makes the everything else, like really bad and you can't really distract yourself. But my hope for this year is that since things are more open, since we're doing a lot more things, and maybe some people's perspectives on the winter might change.

Manuel:
[16:33] Right. I think though, the, yeah, the last two winters, I guess, already were difficult because, like, you couldn't really meet inside, and meeting outside in the winter in Berlin is just really uncomfortable. And so it was even more depressive because you just didn't see people. Because the winter can have these nice gemütlich, like cozy aspects of meeting in a cafe, and staying in a cafe for 3 hours and sipping on a hot chocolate or whatever, and then having glühwein at a Weihnachtsmarkt, which - some of those were also closed during COVID, and stuff like that. And yeah, I do think that this winter will see the return of those things, even though I think we will probably also have like a spike in COVID cases, and we'll see where that goes. But yeah, I think those kind of comfortable aspects will be back. I have no idea if they can predict in any way if it will be a mild winter or not. In fact, the last one was pretty mild? I don't actually remember, and I just googled this, and apparently some American institute calculated or predicted a mild winter, 2022 - 2023, but I don't know. I don't know if they can.

Jae:
[17:54] What does 'mild' consist of?

Manuel:
[17:57] Like, the opposite of mild would be actually be -10°C for several weeks, you know, lakes freezing, like really, really cold temperatures. And a mild winter is just like: Yeah, it's cold, but it's not freezing cold, it's not snowing. Maybe, you know, it's a wild winter, maybe it's just a rainy winter, but it's not like the temperatures aren't as cold. But then you have these super harsh winters where it's like -10°C or -20°C for weeks on end. I feel like those are rare in Berlin, but they have happened and they could happen.

Jae:
[18:37] Interesting. So, diving more into maybe like the mental side of winter, is there like a collective change in, like, the energy during the wintertime?

Change In Energy Among People

[18:50] Like, does it seem like people are more reserved, maybe a little bit more grumpy, a little bit more quiet?

Manuel:
[18:57] It's a good question. I think ... I think, yeah, people do change. Just ... it's really hard for me to say. But I think just the fact that you're not outside in large groups anymore, right? Like I just spent some of those last sunny autumn days in Mauerpark and, like, watching karaoke and stuff like that, and I just couldn't believe how many people were there. And even though ...

[19:26] ... like, it wasn't a group of people all doing the same thing, it kind of felt like we were all there together and having a good time together, you know, among strangers, and that doesn't really happen in the winter anymore. It feels ... it feels a little bit more maybe individual or isolated, like you maybe meet individual people, but you don't go to a park anymore that's just full of people. And that does change kind of the energy. I don't know if people get even more grumpy probably, maybe yes? I don't know. But yeah, and just the fact that you have so few sun sun hours during the day, I think it changes the the general energy. But I do think it also ... We'll also see with the lights. Like one aspect of winter that I always liked is that a lot of the city is illuminated and it just looks really kind of almost cinematic. And there'll be less of that this year as well because of the energy crisis. But ... I don't know. I like the seasons. Like it sounds like we hate winter and we're like: Aargh! Winter! We have to prepare, it's the worst, winter's coming. I do like winter, but it is something that, I guess, from a mental perspective it's good to mentally prepare yourself for : Okay, it's going to be dark - maybe I need to shine light on my face somehow. And it's going to be cold - I need to prepare in that way. And yeah, I think it's good to be ready, and I guess that's why we're talking about it.

Jae:
[20:56] Yeah.

Manuel:
[20:56] Are you scared? How do you feel about being here?

Jae:
[20:59] No, I've never been scared ... I've never been scared of the winter. Everyone else makes it so scary. I'm not scared of it because I'm also a very social person. I will find my ways to feel good. That's one thing I'm good at, is if I don't feel good, I'll find ways to feel good. And I'm also a partyer, so I'll just get warmth with a lot of people.

Manuel:
[21:21] You're from Austin, Texas, where I guess you never get snow, right? Are you excited? Are you ready? Are you, like, excited for your first real winter?

Jae:
[21:30] Well, actually, I mean, I ... So last winter I was in Austin, and it didn't snow too, too bad. It was like it's sprinkled sometimes, but like, it wasn't like ever too, too cold. Like it might get like a little bit colder than what it is now, but that's generally it. And we might have like a freeze for like a second. Some of ... The winter before that I was in the UK, I was in Manchester, so I actually got to witness snow, and it was pretty cold there. Like actually it was averagely compared to ... it compared closely to what the weather was like in Berlin that year. So I tolerated that, and that was during COVID. And the only reason why I didn't like that, was simply just because of it being COVID and I couldn't do anything. But I would literally at one o'clock in the morning go for an hour walk in the snow, in the cold.

[22:29] So I'm not necessarily scared for it. I'm actually kind of excited. And now, this time I have friends, I have people to go into ... like I have opportunities to go into more warmth, you know, And now if I just prepare, have a better coat and have that type of stuff, then that will be good. And I think also being more mindful of how you might get during this time, and being able to prepare mentally and find stimulation, find that serotonin, find that oxytocin, find those things that are going to make you feel good. And just keeping that in mind now could help out a lot. Like for me, I like being around people. So ensuring that I have, like one, things ... One of the reason why one of the reasons why I moved when I did, was because I wanted enough time to gather a roster of friends, you know, be able to find friend groups, to be able to find things, so when the winter does come, I don't feel like I am lonely or I'm isolated or whatnot. The other thing is to try to take on more hobbies that don't require you to be outside. You know, this is a great time for people to pick up on a new skill that you can maybe do in your house or whatnot. So you're not necessarily feeling bad that you're just watching Netflix or whatnot, but you're actually utilizing this time wisely or ... Yeah, bake some cakes, you know, get into some hobbies during this time.

Manuel:
[23:53] ... Bake some cakes ...

Jae:
[23:58] It doesn't have to be like brutal, you know, like we can't control the weather, but you can control, like, you. You can control how you perceive it and you can control what you do in it. I think that's what people need to do. Instead of complaining is to figure out how not to complain. What would make it better, that you have control over? I got a little existential there, but ...

Manuel:
[24:25] What about family? I feel like Christmastime or wintertime in general is just also a time that for most people is somewhat related to hanging out with your family.

Family Time

[24:36] And for those of you who've moved here, maybe it's a time where maybe you get to go to visit your family. But if you don't, and you don't have that many friends, you might really miss your family. What's your thoughts on this?

Jae:
[24:51] Yeah. So I have ... I can actually speak on this. This year I'm actually going back to Texas for Christmas, so I'm very excited for that. But when I was in the UK, I didn't. I was by myself. I was completely by myself. I didn't have any one. Like my roommate had gone back home, I didn't go back to Texas then, so I spent Christmas by myself. The way that I kind of moderated that was: one, learning to enjoy my alone time, treating myself in that time. I mean, I was also, of course, you know, FaceTiming with my family, but like, if you are alone, this is also something you ... Honestly, just be blunt, you gotta make yourself feel better in that time. I guarantee you, like especially in a city like Berlin, there's always going to be other people who are alone at that time. And you might, by on Facebook, or by just events, you know, find things that people are going to, that you can then participate in.

Manuel:
[25:55] I was just going to say this. This definitely exists. There's Thanksgiving dinners that American immigrants or expats, whatever you want to call them, organize amongst themselves, and that there's Christmas dinners for people who are here but aren't with their families or don't have families. And you ... yeah, you need to kind of take the initiative and find or found your own thing. Right? You could do that if you're ... if you have the energy. But otherwise find a group and say like: Hey, can I join?

Jae:
[26:20] Yeah. You can found it yourself. Yeah.

Manuel:
[26:28] And I mean, I would be the person who would also enjoy spending Christmas by myself as an experiment once maybe ... You know, I could put myself into a mindset to be fine, but many people can't.

Jae:
[26:35] ... Yeah, it was nice ...

Manuel:
[26:41] And especially if you're here for a longer time, maybe you don't want to do that. So maybe now would be a good time to start finding that group already.

Jae:
[26:47] I was going to say, Yeah. Start planning, planning out your holidays now, and still think of it like a holiday. You know, like you don't have to say: Uh-uh, I'm alone this holiday. Like, playing it out like a vacation. Playing it out like you would any other time if you were going back home. You know, all about shifting your perspective of it all, you know, I think that's the biggest important thing. But it can be also, like you said, an experiment, just a time to just see how things are, but know that you're not alone. You know, I mean, like, based off of just the the feedback that we get in the city, the feedback that we get for this podcast, there's a lot of people that are going through similar things. So I can guarantee you that there are various people who might be experiencing Christmas by themselves or whatnot. But you also have ... Like, doesn't Berlin do like Christmas lights or whatnot? They have like festival markets and stuff?

Manuel:
[27:42] Right. And I think we will have some of those things back. But that's also not really something where maybe you would normally go to by yourself. I think it could be a little depressing almost to go there by yourself because ...

Jae:
[27:53] See all the other families that have people to get their ...

Manuel:
[27:56] Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's the thing where you go with other people and ... Yeah, but I guess it's just good to be aware. Depending on where you come from, you might also just not be aware that Christmas really is kind of the number one family holiday in Germany. And almost everyone who has a family goes to see their family for Christmas. Even in families where it's like: We don't really want to talk to each other otherwise! Like, Christmas is the one time where everybody usually comes together. Exceptions apply, obviously, as always, but I would just basically be aware that all of your friends are going to go visit their families, and you might need to organise something if you don't want to be, kind of, by yourself.

Jae:
[28:47] Yeah. The fear of missing out definitely gets stronger as the years go ... as the year, you know ... towards the end of the year.

Manuel:
[28:52] Yeah.

Jae:
[28:56] I'm so excited for Thanksgiving. I don't know how I'll be doing for Thanksgiving this year. I'll be here.

Thanksgiving (And What's Wrong With It)

[29:02] But if any of you guys want to have your first Thanksgiving, I can ...

Manuel:
[29:07] I. Are you throwing a Thanksgiving dinner, Jae? Is that what you're saying?

Jae:
[29:11] I don't have a location, but sure.

Manuel:
[29:14] Okay, So if someone has a location, you will be the organizer.

Jae:
[29:17] Yes, I will take your location and I will claim as my own! I will throw my own Thanksgiving feast! But Thanksgiving is something that's very interesting. It still mind-boggles me. I mean, obviously it makes sense, you know, that no one here celebrates it. But like, I mean, it's just like I still get ... in my American mindset ...

Manuel:
[29:36] How how is that mind-boggling to you? Why would we celebrate American Thanksgiving?

Jae:
[29:40] You know. You know, obviously you shouldn't. But I mean like, I'm just like, you know, when you go to, like, a new place, you're still not 100% accustomed to that new place. You still have your expectations in the back of your mind. You know, Thanksgiving is a tradition for me.

Manuel:
[29:54] To me, it's funny, like, aside from all the weird things about Thanksgiving, and is that really something you should celebrate? and blah, blah, blah - all of those topics, we don't have to get into them - but it's still like just funny to me that you have this this holiday that's culturally so ingrained and important and all the families come together, and it's right before Christmas. Then everybody flies back through half the country, and then a month later it's like Christmas, and they're coming back. Like, couldn't you at least space them out? Like, you know, it's just ... Yeah, I don't know.

Jae:
[30:14] Yeah.

[30:19] Come right back around.

[30:26] Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Practically. When you think about it like that, it does sound kind of extra, ignoring the, you know, the actual truth about Thanksgiving, which is very fucked up. You guys don't know about, like, things ... Okay, actually, you know what? Let me get on my soapbox right now and tell you how Americans are. Children are taught to believe about Thanksgiving. So, as a kid, right, we literally - I want to just sum this up - as a kid, we were taught that the Pilgrims came on the Mayflower, they got here and they were greeted by the quote-unquote "Indians" because that's what they called them at the time. And they then had what was called a feast in which they all were sitting at a table together, sharing their food and culture, smiling and whatnot. And the symbol of a cornucopia was really pushed. So, as a kid, we would be in our like classes ... and this is all the way up to, like I would say, even like ... like, until like high school.

[31:34] We were like all, you know, on this perception, you know, that, oh, they came and they all just had this, like, happy time. No. Then as I got older, I realized the truth, that these people didn't come with greetings. They came with diseases and genocide. And now we have a whole holiday celebrating that! It's kind of fucked up when you think about it!

Manuel:
[32:02] It's pretty messed up, I agree. I didn't want to get into it. But now, now that we're there, we're there.

Jae:
[32:09] Just wanted to educate people on that. But now, I mean, like, aside from that, it is a ... Like I don't celebrate that. I use it as a reason to go back home with my family. But I will say, though, like Thanksgiving ... Like if there is one holiday people come back for, people will most likely come back for Christmas than Thanksgiving.

Manuel:
[32:33] Okay. It's still the most important one. But I mean, in Germany, it's in a way, yeah, you celebrate Christmas, even if you're not Christian or ...

Christmas

[32:42] ... Well, I guess some people really don't celebrate, but we're just culturally still very much a Christian culture, in the sense that, you know, we come together for Christmas and Easter, even if we don't believe in the Christian God or whatever. It's just kind of a cultural thing. And I'm fine, I've made my peace with it. I think it's fine to just have this date, and the meaning can be different for every single person, but it's just kind of, an occasion where societally, we say; Yes, let's all get together with our families at this date. I don't know. I feel fine with it now.

Jae:
[33:21] Yeah, me too. And for corporations, it's their time to make the most money.

Gifts

Manuel:
[33:26] I was just going to ask, what about gifts? Are you a Christmas gift giver?

Jae:
[33:30] Okay, So this is a good question. So my family loves gifts. Like we have this thing called Black Friday that comes the day right after Thanksgiving. And it's ... it hasn't been as hectic as it used to be.

Manuel:
[33:41] People get murdered at Walmart, right?

Jae:
[33:43] Yes. Now, since we've moved a lot of things online, there's not that much like fighting that needs to go on. But yeah, it used to be The Hunger Games, literally, But for me personally, I suck at giving gifts because I just don't like ... I don't know, like the idea of a gift. I don't expect gifts from people. Like, I mean, I have a sister and we're like years apart, so I'm still having only-child syndrome and I do expect certain things from my family every Christmas. Like, "What do you want?" "Oh, I want a new iPhone. I want this, I want that, I want that." But aside from the those things, I don't really, like ...