Show Notes
- All About Berlin: How to find an apartment in Berlin
- Berlin: Wohnberechtigungsschein (WBS) beantragen
- WG-Gesucht.de
- ImmoScout24
Transcript
Thank you to Goose for proofreading this transcript.
Manuel:
[0:09] We're talking about finding a place to live in Berlin today, and the situation is dire, it feels like. Anecdotally, I have several friends who are looking for a place or considering moving to another place, and it just seems so damn difficult to find an apartment in Berlin right now. And it was difficult a few years ago, but it was kind of difficult in the sense that you kind of had to search for a while and just kind of wait for the lucky break, and now it's just more like, you know, I'm talking to some people who are like, "Will I ever find something? Do I have to move away from Berlin?" So, it's a little tense. It's not quite London yet, I think, but it's definitely not the Berlin that we had ten, even five, even two years ago.
Jae:
[1:12] Mm hmm. That's understandable. I think a lot of these big cities are having that same issue. I mean here in Austin, Texas, our housing market has just skyrocketed to the point where you can't find a place nor can you afford a place as well.
Manuel:
[1:30] Right.
Jae:
[1:31] They don't make it easy for anybody.
Manuel:
[1:35] Yeah, I mean Berlin, on the positive side of things, has space. It's just that we don't have enough apartments. But apartments are being built. I think they started a little late with all of that or and it also just ... it just takes time, you know, you don't build an apartment complex in a week. But it feels like at least there is space and they are going to build more places. And Berlin also geographically isn't that huge of a city, so even if you kind of move to the outskirts you can still take the S-Bahn and you're in the center in 30, 40, 45 minutes, which is fine, compared to how it is with other big cities. But yeah, I just wanted to preface this, and I think today I guess I have a lot of things to say, a lot of tips and tricks and detailed things, and things that I hope will help you when you come here. And maybe you have questions as well? And maybe we can turn this into something positive, and just kind of to say: Hey, the situation is a little dire. It is really difficult to find a place, but it's also not impossible, and I kind of think it's hopefully going to get better in the long run and, yeah. But I think it's good to be realistic and to know about this, and not to go into the situation, kind of you know, easy breezy: I will just arrive and a week later I'll have a place to live. It's not like that usually.
Jae:
[3:21] So I have a few questions for you then: What are the expectations one should have when coming here, when preparing? And then my next question would be: What particularly is difficult about finding a place?
Manuel:
[3:38] Yeah those are good questions. So I think we'll keep it a little on the broad side. We will go through the important things that you need. But the site that you recommended in our last episode, "All About Berlin", has a really good sub page on finding a place to live, and it has very detailed instructions and lists. So I would say we'll definitely link to that in the show notes and you don't have to take notes on all the terms and and documents that I'll explain.
[5:26] You're not going to have those things when you just get here, so I think it's much easier to start with trying to find a room in a shared place, so WG-Zimmer. WG is Wohngemeinschaft, so that's a shared apartment, super common in Germany, not just for students. Many people live in WGs or shared places also later in life, and I think it's actually great. So many people are singles and are by themselves, and you know, living in an apartment all by yourself isn't really economical, in many meanings of the word.
[6:05] So I would start with that. I would start with trying to find a room, possibly something that is temporary, so that the word that you will see: Zwischenmiete, Zwischenmiete means it's not permanent, it's just in-between. And usually when people go to study abroad for a semester or for a year or whatever, they'll rent out their room or possibly their entire apartment, but it's clear: Hey, this is for six months, or this is for a year, and then I'll come back and you'll have to move. But it's easier to find those kinds of places, and then you're here and you have some time to breathe and really focus on finding something. And the other thing is kind of being flexible in terms of where you live, you know. Everybody wants to live in the center, but maybe for the first few months you live 45 minutes or even an hour outside of Berlin but you take the S-Bahn, and I think that's fine.
Jae:
[7:03] That's fair. I definitely am one of those high-expectations type of person who is like: I will live in the city when I first get there, I want to be in my own space, or whatnot. But no, I think you have opened up my eyes. And I think being realistic is good, and also knowing that it's not permanent. I think that's the idea that I kind of get wrapped around, which becomes kind of tricky though, because for me there is some sort of uncertainty with the duration of time because I need an Anmeldung in order to apply for my work permit, you know. Most times landlords are only willing to give you that if you are getting a space that notes six months or so. So that's definitely been a tricky aspect of things. It's like: Okay, if I do find a place that's temporary, I don't mind a temporary place, but can I still register my place with a temporary location?
Manuel:
[8:10] But yes, you'll find a solution, because maybe, strictly speaking, there are very strict rules, but you can even register with a friend in the beginning or some other place. Basically I wouldn't make the Anmeldung that big of a part of the finding a place. And even if you live somewhere for six months and it's a Zwischenmiete, it's temporary because the person has left, they should let you register. So it's not that people can't do it. Like if I were to leave my apartment for six months, yes, I would ask my landlord: Hey, can I rent out my space for six months? And they would say: Yes. It's not that they will force you to leave it empty, and at that point you could also do the Anmeldung here, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. The hardest part is really getting the appointment, but I think that's not the biggest problem. I also do agree with you, like you should definitely be super optimistic and have a vision of how you want to live, and focus on that.
[9:16] And for me personally, I mean, speaking from a position of privilege obviously, it's worked for me. Like when I was looking for an apartment, I went to a lot of Besichtigungen, apartment viewings, and most of them weren't that great, but they were kind of okay-ish, and I applied for all of them and I was turned down for all of them. And then this apartment that I live in now that is beautiful and awesome and I love it and I feel amazing in this apartment, materialized. And basically I guess my point is: you're waiting for that lucky moment and you just don't know if the lucky moment is going to come after a week or after six months, you know. But I do believe that you should have a vision of how you want to live, and stay positive, but also to stay realistic and give it time and not freak out if it takes longer than a few weeks.
Jae:
[10:16] That is a good perspective to have. Definitely. Because I definitely think that whenever you're in the heat of it all that you can get very anxious and get very worried and then you get very hopeless. So then you get to a point of desperation as well, which is another point that I would like to bring up, is that part of: how do you deal with the desperation of things? I remember when I was in the UK, my lease ended in like March and I still had one month to go before I had to come back to America, and it was a pain to try to find a place. Then I finally found the place, but, boy, was that place probably one of the worst places I have ever lived! It was not clean, nothing worked, the air didn't work, the heat didn't work, like the landlord was not attended to anything, would not help us with anything. So that kind of scared me into this whole type of idea of just accepting something right then and there without knowing a lot about the place.
Manuel:
[11:23] Yeah, yeah. But that's the thing. That's why I think it's good to find something temporary in the beginning. Because it takes some time to learn, you know, and if you have six months to look around and go to apartment viewings and kind of see what's out there and what the situation is, then you're going to be in a better place when that lucky moment comes, as opposed to when you're under a lot of stress and under a lot of pressure: I need to find something by next month. So yeah, obviously also, and if you have enough money, you can get a temporary place that's a bit nicer. There are these kind of furnished apartments that you can get that are much easier to get, simply because they are expensive, but they're also not that crazy expensive usually. So as a temporary thing, just to give it some time and to be able to look around with more time, I think that's also an option. So before I answer your question about what you need, I think we should go over some important terms, and I'll be curious if you already know them.
Jae:
[12:46] Not the actual German word, but yes, I know a little bit about what cold rent is and warm rent. I believe one of them is rent that you pay a month, each month, right?
Manuel:
[12:58] Well you pay... Yeah. In the end, what you pay each month, what you transfer via your bank account is the Warmmiete, is the warm rent, but basically it consists of two different kinds of things.And it's important to know, because when you look at the ads in the internet often they will just list the Kaltmiete, and that's kind of just the rent. That's what your landlord gets, like that's what they take for that. Like that's the rent that they're taking. But then you have to pay for a wide variety of things, such as the garbage disposal, the guy that takes care of the apartment building, the people who clean the floors in the apartment building, the yearly gas inspection, kind of all the things that are connected, insurance of the building, like all the things, sewage, I don't even know what else. Every year you get a list of all the things that you've been paying for, and it's all of those things that are connected to the building, to everybody who lives in the building, and that is called Nebenkosten, so kind of side costs. And the cold rent, just the rent and those Nebenkosten, that makes the Warmmiete, and that's what you actually transfer.
[14:23] And then at the end of the year - or actually like a year later - you get a statement where they actually break down how much everything costs, and you usually even get a little bit of money back, or sometimes if you're unlucky, you have to pay a little bit, kind of after the fact, for those Nebenkosten. So they're flexible, they're based on the actual costs, but basically they will give you an amount that is realistic. So just to give you an example, I can - let me just look at my own kind of costs - so my apartment is relatively affordable. My Kaltmiete is €530 which is, yeah, which is actually really affordable in Berlin.
Jae:
[15:11] So affordable, oh my God!
Manuel:
[15:13] Yeah. Yeah, and then the Nebenkosten is another €115. So €646 is the Warmmiete, is what I'm actually transferring, and that's how that works and it's just important to know that Nebenkosten for like a normal kind of apartment for one to two people is probably somewhere between €100 and €150. So if that's not listed, you just have to know that that will be added. But usually it's listed, I think, these days. And then there are things that you will have to pay that are not connected to your rent at all, which is usually electricity.
[17:13] So if you were able to recommend an amount that someone should expect to save up per month for just rent, and with all those things included, how much do you think I should expect to pay in total for everything a month?
Manuel:
[17:31] Wow, it's really hard to say because really it's changing so much, and there are still places that are really fairly priced like mine, and then there are places that are outrageously priced. I think just kind of very broadly speaking, if you can find a room whatever, like 20 square meters or something like that, like a small but big enough room for yourself in a shared flat with one or two other people and it's not crazy far away, and you can get that for under €500, then that's probably fair. Over €500, depending on the place, may or may not be fair, I would say, but that's very, very roughly speaking.
[18:19] And then a place for yourself, yeah, I mean it depends on the size, it depends on where it is, it depends on the state of the building, all of those things, but I would say, so my place is 66 square meters, and I just broke down the costs, and that is in Wedding, which is a Kiez, it's an area of Berlin that isn't as crazily gentrified yet and still has some lower rents. If you find a similar place in Prenzlauer Berg, which is just 15 minutes from here but super hip and gentrified, it will cost at least twice that probably, I would say.
[19:10] Gotcha, gotcha. What do you think of places like Airbnbs and hostels as a temporary place to stay until you find something more secure?
Manuel:
[19:23] I don't know. I think it would be very temporary, right? Because living in an Airbnb for six months would be very expensive, I guess, and in a hostel, very uncomfortable, kind of what do you do with your stuff? And I do think you can find a room that's temporary easily enough, that you don't have to spend that much time in a hostel. I mean, hopefully that's still true.
[19:53] Okay. So some other terms that I quickly wanted to mention. And it's funny because some of these terms, honestly, they confused me when I was younger. Like when I was first starting to look for an apartment by myself, even growing up in Germany they were confusing to me. So I think if you're coming from abroad, they might be really confusing.
[23:14] What are good indicators or flags of where someone is actually trying to bribe? Because I might ... I'm too innocent to even ... I wouldn't even know if they were doing that or not.
Manuel:
[23:25] That's a good question. I mean, I think there are scams that are very common where people are trying to find a room and they're not in Berlin yet and they aren't able to actually physically come to the place and check it out, and so they will see videos or maybe even like a live video call walkthrough, and it all looks legit and it all looks great, and then they're asked to transfer a Kaution - what we just talked about like a security - and then it turns out the place doesn't actually exist and it was a scam. I've heard about this several times. So those actual blatant scams, I would just say, if you're not able to visit the place yourself because you're not there yet, try for someone to go there in person, or at least wait in terms of sending money. Like it's just, you need to be super careful.
[24:17] Other than that, when you're actually there and you're visiting the place and you're talking to the people, you just need to try to get a sense and basically ... Well, what you read on the internet, what people will tell you is: Don't transfer any money before you get the keys. But in theory it's another chicken-and-egg problem because they won't give you the keys until you've transferred the security. So it doesn't work like that. It's just, you have to kind of listen to your intuition and maybe take someone along who has experience, and just make sure it's legit. Obviously if it's a company that you're signing the lease with, like one of the big Wohnungsbaugesellschaften, one of the big companies that have hundreds of apartments or thousands of apartments in Berlin, you're safe. But if it's just an individual person, you just need to kind of vet them and make sure it's legit.
Jae:
[25:11] Gotcha. That's a good, good point. I think that was my biggest concern, is just the scams and seeing what looks legit and what doesn't look legit. Because I mean it is very tricky to know, and I think they can take advantage of people who are so desperate, you know, just trying to find some sort of security, and you end up depositing money to someone that wasn't even a thing.
Manuel:
[25:37] Yeah, totally. So then two other things:
Jae:
[28:29] For sure, that's very true, How do you get started with that?
Manuel:
[28:33] It's a good question. I mean, it's probably one of those service sites, Berlin services, WBS ... We'll put a link in the show notes. Wohnberechtigungsschein beantragen. Yeah, so yeah, you just need to fill out a form and kind of prove how much you're making in terms of income, and then send that off. So it's not that big of a deal.
Jae:
[29:01] Gotcha. That's good to know that.
Manuel:
[29:03] I feel like I'm holding a monologue here today. Do you have any thoughts or questions before we keep going?
Jae:
[29:08] No, no, no you're good. I would say I would ... My question goes more back to the scam warnings and the warning signs and the red flags and stuff. It's really hard to, for me personally, to really know what is too good to be true, you know?
Manuel:
[29:46] That's really difficult to answer. I mean it's the I-know-it-when-I-see-it kind of thing. Because the thing is, there are like ... One thing that I wanted to touch on later in terms of how to search, is the best way to find the best places is through connections. Because there are places that seem too good to be true, but they are true. But those places never appear on the internet. They are not announced on any of the sites because they just go through connections. Like someone is moving out, whatever, they are moving to a different city, but they have lived in this apartment for the last 20 years and they still have the same contract with the same price from 20 years ago, and they can kind of change the name on the lease, officially or unofficially or whatever, and you can get the place. And it's amazing and super cheap and too good to be true, but it's possible because it's through a connection. So it's hard to say, you know. I don't think there is a, "too good to be true." It's just if you see something like that on the internet, if you find like an Altbau, amazing, renovated place in the center of Berlin for €400, that's not going to be true! So yeah, I would say just, I don't know, have another pair of eyes look at it too, check it out.
Jae:
[31:18] That's really good. Yeah, always ask somebody. Value your connections.
Manuel:
[31:24] Yeah. So maybe while we're at it, before we talk about the documents that you will need when you apply, this whole topic of how to actually approach the search. How do you search for a place? This is, I feel like the place where, yeah, I do have experience because I have moved several times within Berlin and I feel like I have a few tips. And the problem is there aren't that many parameters you can even control. Like there aren't that many things that you can necessarily do, but it's good to know the things where you hopefully can, you know, do better than other people, hopefully, or do your best to to be prepared. So obviously I just mentioned the connections. So connections means, first of all, tell everybody. Tell everybody you're looking for a place, and be very specific. It's always good to be specific. You know, like: I'm looking for a place to live by myself, like an apartment for myself, preferably in one of these districts, and this is the maximum rent that I'm willing to pay. Kind of that. If you give out those pieces of information, it's a little bit more concrete than: I'm looking for a place. And yeah, I would just say, if you have friends that know a lot of people, that hear a lot of things, that helps. If you can befriend someone or know someone who works at one of those companies that have thousands of apartments that might be helpful, because like I said, some of the places, I think the places that actually end up on the internet are probably a minority at this point. I think most places just go because someone knows someone who, you know, is reliable and they're looking for a place, so they get it.
Jae:
[34:05] Yes, that's ... Honestly, I've always recommended Facebook groups. My place in Austin, I found via Facebook. My place in the UK, I found via Facebook. I've always ... I've also ... Like Facebook, especially for me, who was concerned about this whole scamming aspect of things, I found it a little bit more legit whenever I'm on Facebook 'cause I can actually talk to people, I can see who they are, and then also, you know, make video calls with them and actually talk to them, get to actually know who they really, really are.
Manuel:
[34:40] That's good. Yeah.
[36:10] You need to get the mobile app and turn on the immediate notifications as soon as something goes online, on your phone. And then, what you need to get in the habit of - and I swear this is how I got this place - is as soon as you get a notification, tap it, just look at the pictures, and within like 10 seconds decide: Is this something that in theory could be an option for me? And if so, send your message. And you have a template, either prepared that you can just copy and paste, or the apps also have a template function, and you just send your quick introduction of yourself, just three sentences: "Hey, my name is so and so. I'm this old, and I have a steady job with a steady income, and I'm looking for a place. I would love to visit if possible." Just like a quick first introduction, and you just send that right away. This place where I'm living now, they turned off the ad after 10 minutes, and within those 10 minutes had already gotten like 100 messages, or, I don't know, 50, a lot, I don't know how many exactly. And they only invited the first three people. And I was among those three people and that's how I got this place. So it's not that that guarantees you getting a place, but I would say that one of the few things that you can control is being really fucking fast, and I recommend doing it that way.
Jae:
[37:38] Me, right now, about to download that app!
Manuel:
[37:41] And then one other kind of tip that I have from doing this method and sending a lot of messages, and I would also always put my phone number in the message, once you've done this, so once you've sent the message, I would save the ad locally. So I would usually, if I was on my computer I would print it as a pdf and save it, and save the file with the street name of where the places is as the file name, and put that all into one folder. Or if I was on my phone, maybe I would just screenshot it. And the reason is, if you get a call from someone, either the person who lives there, or the agent, or whatever, and they're saying: Hello, we would like to invite you to the apartment viewing, you want to minimize the awkwardness of saying: Okay, could you tell me again where was this place? What did it cost? How much? And you need to remember that oftentimes they take the apartment listing down right away or pretty soon, so it's not going to be online even anymore. So even if you still have the link saved, you're not going to have the information anymore and you will have forgotten everything - the images, the description, the price - and you will maybe go there and be clueless and will have to ask a lot of questions. So just saving it with the street name, that lets you then on the phone just say: Could you tell me what was the street of the object again? And they just tell you the street name, and then you double-click your little pdf, and you're like: Ah yeah, that's the one for €650. Yes, I would love to come." Kind of, you know? You want to approach it very professionally and be prepared.
Jae:
[39:25] And that is a great tip to have, because that's happened to me before. I was like: Oh, sorry! Like I just say: Yes, and then I had to google who they were again!
Manuel:
[39:35] Yeah, so those are my tips for the websites. One thing that people will also recommend is, for ImmobilienScout24, getting the premium account. I kind of hate recommending that because, I don't know, it shouldn't be necessary. I also don't know how much it really helps. But apparently, I think with the premium account you get to see some places a little bit sooner, or if you send them a message, the message goes to the top of the inbox of the other person, some weird things like that. So I would just swallow those €30 a month or whatever it is and pay it, because whatever raises your chances, raises your chances. And then, one other tip that I have that actually helped me in the past as well, not in Berlin.
Jae:
[41:34] I agree. That was how I actually found my last few places, was me posting and then them reaching out to me.
Manuel:
[41:41] That's great. Yeah. Yeah. So I think those are my recommendations in terms of how to search. You just need to be on it. Unfortunately, it's kind of a full time job, almost. If you also have a job ... I mean, luckily we both have jobs that are pretty flexible and I was always able to kind of take every call and tap on every notification. And if someone said: Can you be there tomorrow at 9 am? The answer was always: Yes. For me, if you're stuck in an office from 9 to 5 with zero flexibility, it's going to be a lot more difficult, for sure.
Jae:
[42:21] For sure. No, definitely. So my question is like, another frustration that I always have is:
Manuel:
[43:00] Yeah, I think that's difficult. I think most places, you know, yeah, mostly it's available now or from the first of next month. I think it's rare that someone finds a tenant or whatever for kind of three months in advance. Or maybe three months still even could happen, but more than that I don't think ever happens. So I would just kind of focus on the documents that we still have to talk about, prepare those, have everything in order. But then otherwise, yeah, focus on getting a temporary place so that you then can be very flexible, hopefully, and just once you're already in Berlin, start looking. Because I think it's difficult to do this in advance - I know you like doing things really in advance - and just be on top of everything and prepared.
Jae:
[44:02] I do. It's so hard.
Manuel:
[44:03] I know, but I don't think you can, for this.
Jae:
[44:06] Yeah. Which is the tough part, because it's like you said, it's a full time job. And I'm like: Okay, I want to get started now. And I'm like: Uh, March, alright, another March, one, another March."
Manuel:
[44:17] Mm hmm.
Jae:
[44:18] "Okay, first of April. Dang! Too early!"
Manuel:
[44:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Jae:
[44:24] But I will say for anybody, one thing that I've done is what I typically do when there is, like if I'm not moving in till like a month or what, I will still start looking now, because I think one of the benefits of looking early is, one, you get into the habit of looking, but not only that, you start to understand where to look, and you start to understand how these websites work. And you start understanding like what should your message be whenever you do have a place that's available. So if anything, I would recommend people use this time to just prepare. So, right, when there is an opportunity to find a place you can just lock it in, because that is something that you don't think about. But I'm already looking at those websites that you suggested, and there's going to be a lot of learning curve to me just even understanding how the website works, and understanding which posts I should be looking out for. So definitely you can use this time to, I guess, prepare and practice and get into the habit. So whenever the time does come, you're right on it.
Manuel:
[45:31] Totally. And also just to get a sense of what's out there. Even if you're not visiting these places, you'll see the listings, you will see the photos, and what the place costs, and where it is located. That's one of the really tricky things when you move to Berlin, is kind of understanding the layout of the city and what are the cool places to live at, and what are the okay or central places to live at, and what are the kind of outskirts - you can't tell just from looking at a map. It's something you're learning over time, and just from looking at these listings, it gives you an idea. And I think it's a it's a great idea to get in the habit, and maybe even send out messages, just to see who's getting back to you, who is replying to you. Totally. I think warming up, so that you're one hundred percent ready when you get here, is a great idea.
[47:26] But in this case, the landlord met me individually, so he scheduled 10 minutes to meet just with me, and, by luck, I was the first person who he met with. And I really made an effort to talk with this person and not just kind of look and tell him the bare minimum, but I was asking him questions, not just about the flat but kind of also about him and his life, and I was sharing my life with him and found a connection. And he later told me: Hey, I normally have several people visit the place, but in your case I just decided that it's a fit. And I got the place. Once again, I'm talking from a place of privilege.
Jae:
[49:38] For sure, no that makes sense. So then what do you say about if you're on these websites and you're making a profile or whatnot? Do you think people should put their profile picture on there?
[49:52] No, I don't think that's a thing when it comes to apartment searches. It is weirdly a thing with job listings in Germany still, like it's still kind of normal in Germany to put your photo on your CV. I think it's slowly changing. But for some weird reason we still do this. That's not something that you do in the apartment search, but - and this gets us to our documents - so, after you've sent this initial message and they get back to you and you've been to the apartment viewing, they will ask for some documents, and they're always the same, pretty much, and one of them will be a copy of your passport, and so by then they will see your face, for sure.But yeah, the bigger things are, first of all, they want to see a steady income. So they will want to see usually the last four income statements or salary statements. So if you don't have those yet, it's going to be really difficult. There is a way where someone can vouch for you. It's called a Bürgschaft. When I first moved out, my mom, you know, signed a document like that and basically said: Okay, if he doesn't pay the rent, I'll pay it, and here's my salary slips. But yeah, you're in a better place if you already have a steady income. And rule of thumb in terms of what people want to see is the rent shouldn't be more than one third of your income. So basically if you're applying for a place that is €500, your income should be €1500. Otherwise, if it's half or more of your income, it probably won't be enough.
[51:55] And then the other thing is the Schufa. So we have this weird credit rating system in Germany, it's borderline shady because it's a private company that does it. We could do a whole episode about this, I feel. But basically everybody, every person who lives in Germany, has a Schufa score. And basically it can be either positive or not positive and you need it to be positive. If it's not positive because maybe you've had a credit in the past and you were late on all the payments - or I don't even know exactly what you have to do to get it to be negative - but then it's going to be really difficult. So first of all, you know, try to always pay all your credits and everything, so that doesn't happen. And then you need to get a statement from them, which costs like €30 or something. But by law you can also get it for free once a year, or twice a year, but the free one looks really shitty, unfortunately, and also has all of the information, like all of your personal information and bank accounts and stuff on it, whereas the €30 one just says positive and nothing else, and your name. So in the end, even though it sucks, I would recommend paying for it and getting it. I don't really know what happens if you've never lived in Berlin before, if they will even send you something ...
Jae:
[53:28] That was going to be my next question.
Manuel:
[53:29] This is something that you'll have to report back on. I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know how you, when you first ... like when do they ... When do they first know about you? I would assume after you first opened a bank account in Germany, because it's tied to all your bank accounts and stuff. So that's one other thing that is going to make it hard to find a permanent place all by yourself when you just get here, because you're not going to have these things, unfortunately, and they all want to see it.
[54:05] And the last document is the - and it's a wonderful German word - Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung, and all that means is a piece of paper, a letter from your previous landlord, saying that you have always paid your rent. And it is very important. And so this is something that I would even get if you're moving from abroad, I would get it essentially from your current landlord from where you live now, and have them sign it, just so that you have this document, even if it's from another country. Because they all want to make sure. I feel like there's like a secret society of landlords, and they all have sworn an oath that they will never lie about this, and that they will warn the other landlords if any tenant has ever been late on their payment, so they can warn the others and never give them another apartment. Because yeah, they all insist on this document.
Jae:
[55:04] That's good to know. Yeah, definitely. I think that that's something I can ask my landlord right now, which, I'm always on time, so if any particular landlord in Berlin is looking for a tenant, I pay my rent on time. Always.
Manuel:
[55:18] Yes. Yeah, man. I feel like I went through a lot of information just in a long monologue. Do you feel like any of this is helpful at all?
[55:31] Oh my gosh! All of it was helpful. Like there's a lot of stuff I didn't even realize that I needed to know, especially when it comes to the documents. And then things like the cold rent and the warm rent, those are two super big things. And then just the personal impressions, and you know, making sure that you have all your shit together. Essentially, I think those are important things that I mean ... in all honesty, I think the biggest one that you really brought to me was just I need to have realistic expectations too. So I think, yeah, it was much, much, much needed.
Manuel:
[56:06] That's good to hear. Yeah, be realistic, be positive, both of them at the same time. And it's really about endurance a little bit. I think it's normal that it just takes some time. And I mean I've gotten to know you well enough now that I'm also kind of optimistic that you will find something in no time, and it'll be like the Berghain thing. You'll be like: I don't know what anybody's talking about, I found my dream apartment in two weeks! That could happen, and I wish nothing more for you than that you're able to make that happen. But if not, don't lose lose hope. And just realize that, I mean, everybody's in the same place. Lots of people are coming to Berlin for good reasons. Berlin has this diversity, people from all over the world, and it's just the situation we're in. It's just a lot of people. And I think if Berlin grows a little bit, and you know, not everybody lives in the city center, that's also a reality, and hopefully we can build more apartments, so that more people can find a place, you know.
Jae:
[57:25] I agree.
[0:09] We're talking about finding a place to live in Berlin today, and the situation is dire, it feels like. Anecdotally, I have several friends who are looking for a place or considering moving to another place, and it just seems so damn difficult to find an apartment in Berlin right now. And it was difficult a few years ago, but it was kind of difficult in the sense that you kind of had to search for a while and just kind of wait for the lucky break, and now it's just more like, you know, I'm talking to some people who are like, "Will I ever find something? Do I have to move away from Berlin?" So, it's a little tense. It's not quite London yet, I think, but it's definitely not the Berlin that we had ten, even five, even two years ago.
Jae:
[1:12] Mm hmm. That's understandable. I think a lot of these big cities are having that same issue. I mean here in Austin, Texas, our housing market has just skyrocketed to the point where you can't find a place nor can you afford a place as well.
Manuel:
[1:30] Right.
Jae:
[1:31] They don't make it easy for anybody.
Manuel:
[1:35] Yeah, I mean Berlin, on the positive side of things, has space. It's just that we don't have enough apartments. But apartments are being built. I think they started a little late with all of that or and it also just ... it just takes time, you know, you don't build an apartment complex in a week. But it feels like at least there is space and they are going to build more places. And Berlin also geographically isn't that huge of a city, so even if you kind of move to the outskirts you can still take the S-Bahn and you're in the center in 30, 40, 45 minutes, which is fine, compared to how it is with other big cities. But yeah, I just wanted to preface this, and I think today I guess I have a lot of things to say, a lot of tips and tricks and detailed things, and things that I hope will help you when you come here. And maybe you have questions as well? And maybe we can turn this into something positive, and just kind of to say: Hey, the situation is a little dire. It is really difficult to find a place, but it's also not impossible, and I kind of think it's hopefully going to get better in the long run and, yeah. But I think it's good to be realistic and to know about this, and not to go into the situation, kind of you know, easy breezy: I will just arrive and a week later I'll have a place to live. It's not like that usually.
Jae:
[3:21] So I have a few questions for you then: What are the expectations one should have when coming here, when preparing? And then my next question would be: What particularly is difficult about finding a place?
Manuel:
[3:38] Yeah those are good questions. So I think we'll keep it a little on the broad side. We will go through the important things that you need. But the site that you recommended in our last episode, "All About Berlin", has a really good sub page on finding a place to live, and it has very detailed instructions and lists. So I would say we'll definitely link to that in the show notes and you don't have to take notes on all the terms and and documents that I'll explain.
Strategy & Expectations
[4:17] But maybe let's start with, first of all, some broad kind of strategy recommendations, or how I would recommend to someone who's coming to Berlin from abroad for the first time how I would go about finding a place to live. And it's basically very simple. It's basically starting with kind of the lowest-effort, least-complicated, lowest-expectations kind of option. So everybody wants to live somewhere near the center or in a really hip area of Berlin in a beautiful Altbauwohnung and it's affordable and all that. And it's not completely impossible to find a place like this, but it's more or less impossible if you aren't already here, you don't already have a full time job, you don't already have the Schufa which is kind of the credit rating that you need to get.[5:26] You're not going to have those things when you just get here, so I think it's much easier to start with trying to find a room in a shared place, so WG-Zimmer. WG is Wohngemeinschaft, so that's a shared apartment, super common in Germany, not just for students. Many people live in WGs or shared places also later in life, and I think it's actually great. So many people are singles and are by themselves, and you know, living in an apartment all by yourself isn't really economical, in many meanings of the word.
[6:05] So I would start with that. I would start with trying to find a room, possibly something that is temporary, so that the word that you will see: Zwischenmiete, Zwischenmiete means it's not permanent, it's just in-between. And usually when people go to study abroad for a semester or for a year or whatever, they'll rent out their room or possibly their entire apartment, but it's clear: Hey, this is for six months, or this is for a year, and then I'll come back and you'll have to move. But it's easier to find those kinds of places, and then you're here and you have some time to breathe and really focus on finding something. And the other thing is kind of being flexible in terms of where you live, you know. Everybody wants to live in the center, but maybe for the first few months you live 45 minutes or even an hour outside of Berlin but you take the S-Bahn, and I think that's fine.
Jae:
[7:03] That's fair. I definitely am one of those high-expectations type of person who is like: I will live in the city when I first get there, I want to be in my own space, or whatnot. But no, I think you have opened up my eyes. And I think being realistic is good, and also knowing that it's not permanent. I think that's the idea that I kind of get wrapped around, which becomes kind of tricky though, because for me there is some sort of uncertainty with the duration of time because I need an Anmeldung in order to apply for my work permit, you know. Most times landlords are only willing to give you that if you are getting a space that notes six months or so. So that's definitely been a tricky aspect of things. It's like: Okay, if I do find a place that's temporary, I don't mind a temporary place, but can I still register my place with a temporary location?
Manuel:
[8:10] But yes, you'll find a solution, because maybe, strictly speaking, there are very strict rules, but you can even register with a friend in the beginning or some other place. Basically I wouldn't make the Anmeldung that big of a part of the finding a place. And even if you live somewhere for six months and it's a Zwischenmiete, it's temporary because the person has left, they should let you register. So it's not that people can't do it. Like if I were to leave my apartment for six months, yes, I would ask my landlord: Hey, can I rent out my space for six months? And they would say: Yes. It's not that they will force you to leave it empty, and at that point you could also do the Anmeldung here, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. The hardest part is really getting the appointment, but I think that's not the biggest problem. I also do agree with you, like you should definitely be super optimistic and have a vision of how you want to live, and focus on that.
[9:16] And for me personally, I mean, speaking from a position of privilege obviously, it's worked for me. Like when I was looking for an apartment, I went to a lot of Besichtigungen, apartment viewings, and most of them weren't that great, but they were kind of okay-ish, and I applied for all of them and I was turned down for all of them. And then this apartment that I live in now that is beautiful and awesome and I love it and I feel amazing in this apartment, materialized. And basically I guess my point is: you're waiting for that lucky moment and you just don't know if the lucky moment is going to come after a week or after six months, you know. But I do believe that you should have a vision of how you want to live, and stay positive, but also to stay realistic and give it time and not freak out if it takes longer than a few weeks.
Jae:
[10:16] That is a good perspective to have. Definitely. Because I definitely think that whenever you're in the heat of it all that you can get very anxious and get very worried and then you get very hopeless. So then you get to a point of desperation as well, which is another point that I would like to bring up, is that part of: how do you deal with the desperation of things? I remember when I was in the UK, my lease ended in like March and I still had one month to go before I had to come back to America, and it was a pain to try to find a place. Then I finally found the place, but, boy, was that place probably one of the worst places I have ever lived! It was not clean, nothing worked, the air didn't work, the heat didn't work, like the landlord was not attended to anything, would not help us with anything. So that kind of scared me into this whole type of idea of just accepting something right then and there without knowing a lot about the place.
Manuel:
[11:23] Yeah, yeah. But that's the thing. That's why I think it's good to find something temporary in the beginning. Because it takes some time to learn, you know, and if you have six months to look around and go to apartment viewings and kind of see what's out there and what the situation is, then you're going to be in a better place when that lucky moment comes, as opposed to when you're under a lot of stress and under a lot of pressure: I need to find something by next month. So yeah, obviously also, and if you have enough money, you can get a temporary place that's a bit nicer. There are these kind of furnished apartments that you can get that are much easier to get, simply because they are expensive, but they're also not that crazy expensive usually. So as a temporary thing, just to give it some time and to be able to look around with more time, I think that's also an option. So before I answer your question about what you need, I think we should go over some important terms, and I'll be curious if you already know them.
Kaltmiete vs. Warmmiete
[12:37] So Kaltmiete and Warmmiete: cold and warm rent. Have you already educated yourself about those terms?Jae:
[12:46] Not the actual German word, but yes, I know a little bit about what cold rent is and warm rent. I believe one of them is rent that you pay a month, each month, right?
Manuel:
[12:58] Well you pay... Yeah. In the end, what you pay each month, what you transfer via your bank account is the Warmmiete, is the warm rent, but basically it consists of two different kinds of things.And it's important to know, because when you look at the ads in the internet often they will just list the Kaltmiete, and that's kind of just the rent. That's what your landlord gets, like that's what they take for that. Like that's the rent that they're taking. But then you have to pay for a wide variety of things, such as the garbage disposal, the guy that takes care of the apartment building, the people who clean the floors in the apartment building, the yearly gas inspection, kind of all the things that are connected, insurance of the building, like all the things, sewage, I don't even know what else. Every year you get a list of all the things that you've been paying for, and it's all of those things that are connected to the building, to everybody who lives in the building, and that is called Nebenkosten, so kind of side costs. And the cold rent, just the rent and those Nebenkosten, that makes the Warmmiete, and that's what you actually transfer.
[14:23] And then at the end of the year - or actually like a year later - you get a statement where they actually break down how much everything costs, and you usually even get a little bit of money back, or sometimes if you're unlucky, you have to pay a little bit, kind of after the fact, for those Nebenkosten. So they're flexible, they're based on the actual costs, but basically they will give you an amount that is realistic. So just to give you an example, I can - let me just look at my own kind of costs - so my apartment is relatively affordable. My Kaltmiete is €530 which is, yeah, which is actually really affordable in Berlin.
Jae:
[15:11] So affordable, oh my God!
Manuel:
[15:13] Yeah. Yeah, and then the Nebenkosten is another €115. So €646 is the Warmmiete, is what I'm actually transferring, and that's how that works and it's just important to know that Nebenkosten for like a normal kind of apartment for one to two people is probably somewhere between €100 and €150. So if that's not listed, you just have to know that that will be added. But usually it's listed, I think, these days. And then there are things that you will have to pay that are not connected to your rent at all, which is usually electricity.
Electricity, Gas, Internet, TV Tax
[15:58] Electricity depends how how much that is. I think I pay around €50 a month, so it's not cheap. And then there's gas. So my apartment, the heating and the warm water is is gas, and that's around €40 for me. Some people also cook with gas, so it kind of depends on the apartment, but that's also that's something that you then individually register once you live there, so it's not included in the rent or anything. And then in Germany you also have to pay, there's TV tax, Rundfunkbeitrag which every household has to pay no matter what, that's €17 a month, whether you have a TV or not, you just have to pay it, and internet, obviously you'll have to get yourself, and for me that's around €30 a month. So those are things that are never included in the rent unless you live in a kind of a shared apartment or whatever and someone else takes care of it and just includes it. But if you're getting an apartment for yourself, you have to deal with those things once you move.How Much Rent Is "Normal"?
Jae:[17:13] So if you were able to recommend an amount that someone should expect to save up per month for just rent, and with all those things included, how much do you think I should expect to pay in total for everything a month?
Manuel:
[17:31] Wow, it's really hard to say because really it's changing so much, and there are still places that are really fairly priced like mine, and then there are places that are outrageously priced. I think just kind of very broadly speaking, if you can find a room whatever, like 20 square meters or something like that, like a small but big enough room for yourself in a shared flat with one or two other people and it's not crazy far away, and you can get that for under €500, then that's probably fair. Over €500, depending on the place, may or may not be fair, I would say, but that's very, very roughly speaking.
[18:19] And then a place for yourself, yeah, I mean it depends on the size, it depends on where it is, it depends on the state of the building, all of those things, but I would say, so my place is 66 square meters, and I just broke down the costs, and that is in Wedding, which is a Kiez, it's an area of Berlin that isn't as crazily gentrified yet and still has some lower rents. If you find a similar place in Prenzlauer Berg, which is just 15 minutes from here but super hip and gentrified, it will cost at least twice that probably, I would say.
Temporary Places
Jae:[19:10] Gotcha, gotcha. What do you think of places like Airbnbs and hostels as a temporary place to stay until you find something more secure?
Manuel:
[19:23] I don't know. I think it would be very temporary, right? Because living in an Airbnb for six months would be very expensive, I guess, and in a hostel, very uncomfortable, kind of what do you do with your stuff? And I do think you can find a room that's temporary easily enough, that you don't have to spend that much time in a hostel. I mean, hopefully that's still true.
[19:53] Okay. So some other terms that I quickly wanted to mention. And it's funny because some of these terms, honestly, they confused me when I was younger. Like when I was first starting to look for an apartment by myself, even growing up in Germany they were confusing to me. So I think if you're coming from abroad, they might be really confusing.
Kaution vs. Provision
[20:12] So, Kaution and Provision. Kaution is very normal. You will always pay Kaution when you move in anywhere. It's very normal. It's just a security, right? So it's usually two or three times the Kaltmiete, and you just have to put that into an account and you get it back when you move out, it's just, if you destroy the place you won't get it back. And the Provision is something that doesn't really exist anymore, at least in Berlin, Provision means in order to get the apartment you have to pay a certain amount, and you never get that back. The reason that doesn't exist anymore is because there is a law now where I think that ... To be honest, I don't know the details, but it's very rare that you see places with a Provision unless it's a place that you are buying or trying to buy. Maybe it does still exist, but it seems rare. What does happen, apparently, is kind of informal bribes and stuff.
Bribes
[21:21] So it's very possible that people will ask you to buy their furniture when you're taking over their flats. Or something that happens very often is that people move and they still have three months on their lease - because usually you have to cancel your lease at least three months before - but they find a new place and they can move in immediately. And so then the landlord says, "Okay, it's fine, you can leave, and if you don't want to pay those three months, just find someone new." So oftentimes the people who are looking, who are now putting an ad for a place, are the tenants that are currently in the place. It was like that for the place that I'm living in now.
[22:05] And so those are the people you're talking to, and they will often ask you, number one, to accept the place without it being painted again, 'cause strictly speaking in the contract that always says you have to paint the walls white when you leave. And then they will say, "Okay, you know, you're accepting the place as is, okay?" And the other thing is that they might ask you to to buy their furniture. And from what I've read, sometimes it is absolutely ludicrous, like people will ask insane amounts of money that have no correlation to the worth of the furniture at all, and it's basically a bribe. It's basically them asking you to bribe them, so that they give you the flat or they recommend you to the landlords. So yeah, I went on a bit of a tangent there, but Provision doesn't really exist. But bribes and stuff do exist, and you have to be careful, and know your boundaries and not let yourself get scammed.
[22:05] And so those are the people you're talking to, and they will often ask you, number one, to accept the place without it being painted again, 'cause strictly speaking in the contract that always says you have to paint the walls white when you leave. And then they will say, "Okay, you know, you're accepting the place as is, okay?" And the other thing is that they might ask you to to buy their furniture. And from what I've read, sometimes it is absolutely ludicrous, like people will ask insane amounts of money that have no correlation to the worth of the furniture at all, and it's basically a bribe. It's basically them asking you to bribe them, so that they give you the flat or they recommend you to the landlords. So yeah, I went on a bit of a tangent there, but Provision doesn't really exist. But bribes and stuff do exist, and you have to be careful, and know your boundaries and not let yourself get scammed.
Scams
Jae:[23:14] What are good indicators or flags of where someone is actually trying to bribe? Because I might ... I'm too innocent to even ... I wouldn't even know if they were doing that or not.
Manuel:
[23:25] That's a good question. I mean, I think there are scams that are very common where people are trying to find a room and they're not in Berlin yet and they aren't able to actually physically come to the place and check it out, and so they will see videos or maybe even like a live video call walkthrough, and it all looks legit and it all looks great, and then they're asked to transfer a Kaution - what we just talked about like a security - and then it turns out the place doesn't actually exist and it was a scam. I've heard about this several times. So those actual blatant scams, I would just say, if you're not able to visit the place yourself because you're not there yet, try for someone to go there in person, or at least wait in terms of sending money. Like it's just, you need to be super careful.
[24:17] Other than that, when you're actually there and you're visiting the place and you're talking to the people, you just need to try to get a sense and basically ... Well, what you read on the internet, what people will tell you is: Don't transfer any money before you get the keys. But in theory it's another chicken-and-egg problem because they won't give you the keys until you've transferred the security. So it doesn't work like that. It's just, you have to kind of listen to your intuition and maybe take someone along who has experience, and just make sure it's legit. Obviously if it's a company that you're signing the lease with, like one of the big Wohnungsbaugesellschaften, one of the big companies that have hundreds of apartments or thousands of apartments in Berlin, you're safe. But if it's just an individual person, you just need to kind of vet them and make sure it's legit.
Jae:
[25:11] Gotcha. That's a good, good point. I think that was my biggest concern, is just the scams and seeing what looks legit and what doesn't look legit. Because I mean it is very tricky to know, and I think they can take advantage of people who are so desperate, you know, just trying to find some sort of security, and you end up depositing money to someone that wasn't even a thing.
Manuel:
[25:37] Yeah, totally. So then two other things:
Mindestmietdauer
[25:40] One term is Mindestmietdauer, so that's the minimum amount of time that you need to stay. So let's say you find a place and they say, "Okay, this is the rent or whatever and this is the place," sometimes, or often, they will have this minimum amount, and it makes sense. So from a from a landlord's perspective, they don't want people to move in for three months and then move out, and then they have to renovate the place and find another person, so they will ask for you to say that you're staying at least for one year. It's just a term that's important to know and to pay attention to, I think. Sometimes it can even be maybe negotiated. Maybe you can say, "Hey can we just reduce this to six months just in case?" But, yeah.WBS
[26:32] And then the other thing is WBS, Wohnberechtigungsschein. This is also explained on the website, but that is basically subsidized housing. So basically, Berlin and other cities make sure that there are places that are a little bit more affordable. And so, basically, when these apartment buildings or apartments were built, the state subsidized them, but in exchange a certain percentage of the apartments in that building or whatever are reserved for people with lower income. It's really a good idea to make sure that gentrification doesn't ravage kind of wildly and you only have millionaires in one quarter at some point. And basically this Wohnberechtigungsschein, that's the document you need to obtain in order to rent those places, and it's not really that difficult to get that document. You basically need to send the proof of how much money you're making, and if it's below a certain amount - and it depends on whether you're a family or an individual person - they will grant you this document, and then it's valid for one year. And then with this document you can apply for those places that are reserved for people with WBS. And so if you meet the criteria, it's a really good idea to apply for that document and get it, so that you can apply for those places. Because there's not that many of those places, but you don't have that crazy competition of all the millionaire's daughters with their parents, you know, showing up to the apartment viewing, that you can't compete with.Jae:
[28:29] For sure, that's very true, How do you get started with that?
Manuel:
[28:33] It's a good question. I mean, it's probably one of those service sites, Berlin services, WBS ... We'll put a link in the show notes. Wohnberechtigungsschein beantragen. Yeah, so yeah, you just need to fill out a form and kind of prove how much you're making in terms of income, and then send that off. So it's not that big of a deal.
Jae:
[29:01] Gotcha. That's good to know that.
Manuel:
[29:03] I feel like I'm holding a monologue here today. Do you have any thoughts or questions before we keep going?
Jae:
[29:08] No, no, no you're good. I would say I would ... My question goes more back to the scam warnings and the warning signs and the red flags and stuff. It's really hard to, for me personally, to really know what is too good to be true, you know?
Search: Personal Connections
[29:29] Even like so I want to know, maybe you can tell some stories about any friends or whatnot that you have known who have got into it, and what should you be looking out for, like what is too good to be true?Manuel:
[29:46] That's really difficult to answer. I mean it's the I-know-it-when-I-see-it kind of thing. Because the thing is, there are like ... One thing that I wanted to touch on later in terms of how to search, is the best way to find the best places is through connections. Because there are places that seem too good to be true, but they are true. But those places never appear on the internet. They are not announced on any of the sites because they just go through connections. Like someone is moving out, whatever, they are moving to a different city, but they have lived in this apartment for the last 20 years and they still have the same contract with the same price from 20 years ago, and they can kind of change the name on the lease, officially or unofficially or whatever, and you can get the place. And it's amazing and super cheap and too good to be true, but it's possible because it's through a connection. So it's hard to say, you know. I don't think there is a, "too good to be true." It's just if you see something like that on the internet, if you find like an Altbau, amazing, renovated place in the center of Berlin for €400, that's not going to be true! So yeah, I would say just, I don't know, have another pair of eyes look at it too, check it out.
Jae:
[31:18] That's really good. Yeah, always ask somebody. Value your connections.
Manuel:
[31:24] Yeah. So maybe while we're at it, before we talk about the documents that you will need when you apply, this whole topic of how to actually approach the search. How do you search for a place? This is, I feel like the place where, yeah, I do have experience because I have moved several times within Berlin and I feel like I have a few tips. And the problem is there aren't that many parameters you can even control. Like there aren't that many things that you can necessarily do, but it's good to know the things where you hopefully can, you know, do better than other people, hopefully, or do your best to to be prepared. So obviously I just mentioned the connections. So connections means, first of all, tell everybody. Tell everybody you're looking for a place, and be very specific. It's always good to be specific. You know, like: I'm looking for a place to live by myself, like an apartment for myself, preferably in one of these districts, and this is the maximum rent that I'm willing to pay. Kind of that. If you give out those pieces of information, it's a little bit more concrete than: I'm looking for a place. And yeah, I would just say, if you have friends that know a lot of people, that hear a lot of things, that helps. If you can befriend someone or know someone who works at one of those companies that have thousands of apartments that might be helpful, because like I said, some of the places, I think the places that actually end up on the internet are probably a minority at this point. I think most places just go because someone knows someone who, you know, is reliable and they're looking for a place, so they get it.
Search: Chat Groups
[33:26] And I think the kind of beginner's version of all of this is, all the groups. So, and those are also ... There's a bunch of groups listed on the website, "All About Berlin," but whatever, Facebook groups, WhatsApp groups, Telegram groups, where people within some group, maybe some nationality or, I don't know, people who are connected for some reason, are exchanging tips, and I think it's a really good idea to pay attention to those groups as well, just to see if someone can help, or has a tip there.Jae:
[34:05] Yes, that's ... Honestly, I've always recommended Facebook groups. My place in Austin, I found via Facebook. My place in the UK, I found via Facebook. I've always ... I've also ... Like Facebook, especially for me, who was concerned about this whole scamming aspect of things, I found it a little bit more legit whenever I'm on Facebook 'cause I can actually talk to people, I can see who they are, and then also, you know, make video calls with them and actually talk to them, get to actually know who they really, really are.
Manuel:
[34:40] That's good. Yeah.
Search: Websites
[34:54] So then, of course, there are the websites, and there's many, but I think the biggest one in Germany for rooms and shared places is WG-Gesucht. And then the big, big one for apartments but also houses and everything basically is ImmobilienScout24, and we'll link those. And I think, so one thing that really helped me when I was looking, so first of all when you're searching there, you can define very specifically what you're looking for. Like on ImmobilienScout24, you can actually draw a map kind of, or you can draw on a map of Berlin what are the areas that you want to include. And it's good to be specific and to really think about it: Okay if I find something here, would I really take it or is it too far outside? If it's too far outside, don't include it. Like just very specifically draw around the areas that you'd be willing to live. Also very specifically put the maximum price that you would actually pay, and kind of the rooms that you're looking for, and kind of exclude everything from the search that doesn't make any sense anyway. And then, and this is the big one, Tturn on notifications. And not just email notifications. So I think ImmobilienScout24 has a once-per-day or three-times-a-day or once-per-hour email notifications. None of that is good enough.[36:10] You need to get the mobile app and turn on the immediate notifications as soon as something goes online, on your phone. And then, what you need to get in the habit of - and I swear this is how I got this place - is as soon as you get a notification, tap it, just look at the pictures, and within like 10 seconds decide: Is this something that in theory could be an option for me? And if so, send your message. And you have a template, either prepared that you can just copy and paste, or the apps also have a template function, and you just send your quick introduction of yourself, just three sentences: "Hey, my name is so and so. I'm this old, and I have a steady job with a steady income, and I'm looking for a place. I would love to visit if possible." Just like a quick first introduction, and you just send that right away. This place where I'm living now, they turned off the ad after 10 minutes, and within those 10 minutes had already gotten like 100 messages, or, I don't know, 50, a lot, I don't know how many exactly. And they only invited the first three people. And I was among those three people and that's how I got this place. So it's not that that guarantees you getting a place, but I would say that one of the few things that you can control is being really fucking fast, and I recommend doing it that way.
Jae:
[37:38] Me, right now, about to download that app!
Manuel:
[37:41] And then one other kind of tip that I have from doing this method and sending a lot of messages, and I would also always put my phone number in the message, once you've done this, so once you've sent the message, I would save the ad locally. So I would usually, if I was on my computer I would print it as a pdf and save it, and save the file with the street name of where the places is as the file name, and put that all into one folder. Or if I was on my phone, maybe I would just screenshot it. And the reason is, if you get a call from someone, either the person who lives there, or the agent, or whatever, and they're saying: Hello, we would like to invite you to the apartment viewing, you want to minimize the awkwardness of saying: Okay, could you tell me again where was this place? What did it cost? How much? And you need to remember that oftentimes they take the apartment listing down right away or pretty soon, so it's not going to be online even anymore. So even if you still have the link saved, you're not going to have the information anymore and you will have forgotten everything - the images, the description, the price - and you will maybe go there and be clueless and will have to ask a lot of questions. So just saving it with the street name, that lets you then on the phone just say: Could you tell me what was the street of the object again? And they just tell you the street name, and then you double-click your little pdf, and you're like: Ah yeah, that's the one for €650. Yes, I would love to come." Kind of, you know? You want to approach it very professionally and be prepared.
Jae:
[39:25] And that is a great tip to have, because that's happened to me before. I was like: Oh, sorry! Like I just say: Yes, and then I had to google who they were again!
Manuel:
[39:35] Yeah, so those are my tips for the websites. One thing that people will also recommend is, for ImmobilienScout24, getting the premium account. I kind of hate recommending that because, I don't know, it shouldn't be necessary. I also don't know how much it really helps. But apparently, I think with the premium account you get to see some places a little bit sooner, or if you send them a message, the message goes to the top of the inbox of the other person, some weird things like that. So I would just swallow those €30 a month or whatever it is and pay it, because whatever raises your chances, raises your chances. And then, one other tip that I have that actually helped me in the past as well, not in Berlin.
Search: Your Own Ad
[40:23] And then, one other tip that I have, that actually helped me in the past as well - not in Berlin - but also actively put out your own search ad or search listing where you describe yourself and you say: Hey, I'm looking for a place. I mean, especially with rooms, I think that can really work, where some places or some WGs, some kind of shared places are just kind of browsing and kind of looking for a new flatmate. But I even once found a place like this. It was actually a newspaper listing, if you can believe it. I mean this was like 10 years ago, but I put an ad in the newspaper saying that I was looking for a place, and the landlord who got in touch with with me was an old lady that didn't trust the internet, and she just called me and it worked out. I don't think that happens very much anymore. I wouldn't necessarily do the newspaper thing, but I would put an ad on the websites where you describe yourself and say what you're looking for, and you know, it doesn't hurt. It's not a lot of work and definitely it doesn't hurt.Jae:
[41:34] I agree. That was how I actually found my last few places, was me posting and then them reaching out to me.
Manuel:
[41:41] That's great. Yeah. Yeah. So I think those are my recommendations in terms of how to search. You just need to be on it. Unfortunately, it's kind of a full time job, almost. If you also have a job ... I mean, luckily we both have jobs that are pretty flexible and I was always able to kind of take every call and tap on every notification. And if someone said: Can you be there tomorrow at 9 am? The answer was always: Yes. For me, if you're stuck in an office from 9 to 5 with zero flexibility, it's going to be a lot more difficult, for sure.
Jae:
[42:21] For sure. No, definitely. So my question is like, another frustration that I always have is:
When to Start Preparing
[42:29] I want to prepare as early as possible, but a lot of times what I've been finding - because I'm not moving until mid April - most places are looking for a place for people to move in now or in March. So do you have any tips or advice for people who are not going to be able to move until later on, but they're still trying to find some sort of anchor, or some sort of promise or guarantee now?Manuel:
[43:00] Yeah, I think that's difficult. I think most places, you know, yeah, mostly it's available now or from the first of next month. I think it's rare that someone finds a tenant or whatever for kind of three months in advance. Or maybe three months still even could happen, but more than that I don't think ever happens. So I would just kind of focus on the documents that we still have to talk about, prepare those, have everything in order. But then otherwise, yeah, focus on getting a temporary place so that you then can be very flexible, hopefully, and just once you're already in Berlin, start looking. Because I think it's difficult to do this in advance - I know you like doing things really in advance - and just be on top of everything and prepared.
Jae:
[44:02] I do. It's so hard.
Manuel:
[44:03] I know, but I don't think you can, for this.
Jae:
[44:06] Yeah. Which is the tough part, because it's like you said, it's a full time job. And I'm like: Okay, I want to get started now. And I'm like: Uh, March, alright, another March, one, another March."
Manuel:
[44:17] Mm hmm.
Jae:
[44:18] "Okay, first of April. Dang! Too early!"
Manuel:
[44:21] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Jae:
[44:24] But I will say for anybody, one thing that I've done is what I typically do when there is, like if I'm not moving in till like a month or what, I will still start looking now, because I think one of the benefits of looking early is, one, you get into the habit of looking, but not only that, you start to understand where to look, and you start to understand how these websites work. And you start understanding like what should your message be whenever you do have a place that's available. So if anything, I would recommend people use this time to just prepare. So, right, when there is an opportunity to find a place you can just lock it in, because that is something that you don't think about. But I'm already looking at those websites that you suggested, and there's going to be a lot of learning curve to me just even understanding how the website works, and understanding which posts I should be looking out for. So definitely you can use this time to, I guess, prepare and practice and get into the habit. So whenever the time does come, you're right on it.
Manuel:
[45:31] Totally. And also just to get a sense of what's out there. Even if you're not visiting these places, you'll see the listings, you will see the photos, and what the place costs, and where it is located. That's one of the really tricky things when you move to Berlin, is kind of understanding the layout of the city and what are the cool places to live at, and what are the okay or central places to live at, and what are the kind of outskirts - you can't tell just from looking at a map. It's something you're learning over time, and just from looking at these listings, it gives you an idea. And I think it's a it's a great idea to get in the habit, and maybe even send out messages, just to see who's getting back to you, who is replying to you. Totally. I think warming up, so that you're one hundred percent ready when you get here, is a great idea.
Apartment Viewings
[46:24] I also wanted to mention - and I swear we'll get to the documents! - is what to do when you're invited. So because, also from personal experience because I feel like several places that I got in Berlin, the personal impression mattered. Like once I was there, visiting the place, talking to the previous tenants or talking to the landlord, I know at least two situations in my life where I feel like the way I presented myself and the way I connected to those people, mattered, made a difference. For example, years ago when I moved to a place in Schöneberg, luckily the landlord met me by himself. So it wasn't one of those mass apartment viewings, that do happen and I've been to them, where they invite like 50 people at the same time and it's completely anonymous, and they just tell you: Okay, just take a look and then send your documents via email. That is like so demoralizing and hopeless.[47:26] But in this case, the landlord met me individually, so he scheduled 10 minutes to meet just with me, and, by luck, I was the first person who he met with. And I really made an effort to talk with this person and not just kind of look and tell him the bare minimum, but I was asking him questions, not just about the flat but kind of also about him and his life, and I was sharing my life with him and found a connection. And he later told me: Hey, I normally have several people visit the place, but in your case I just decided that it's a fit. And I got the place. Once again, I'm talking from a place of privilege.
Racism
[48:13] There is one other really kind of negative thing that I want to at least mention, which is racism, which is a topic in this area of apartments in Germany. Like one thing that has proven is that if you don't don't have a German-sounding name, if you have an Arab name, for example, it is statistically and individually much harder to find a place. And that is terrible and horrible and illegal, but it is the reality of things. So obviously what I'm saying is kind of from a place of privilege. But I would still say, or recommend, you know, you need to play the game all the way to the end, and when you're invited, just really try, you know, to make a good impression. Be prepared, have all the documents that we'll talk about next, with you. Even though most people don't want them in printed form - they'll ask you to email them - you will come across that one person wants them printed. And if you have them with you in a neat binder, prepared and professional and ready to go, then, you know, you're in a better position. So that's my advice in terms of when you're invited to a place, just you give it your all.Jae:
[49:38] For sure, no that makes sense. So then what do you say about if you're on these websites and you're making a profile or whatnot? Do you think people should put their profile picture on there?
Documents
Manuel:[49:52] No, I don't think that's a thing when it comes to apartment searches. It is weirdly a thing with job listings in Germany still, like it's still kind of normal in Germany to put your photo on your CV. I think it's slowly changing. But for some weird reason we still do this. That's not something that you do in the apartment search, but - and this gets us to our documents - so, after you've sent this initial message and they get back to you and you've been to the apartment viewing, they will ask for some documents, and they're always the same, pretty much, and one of them will be a copy of your passport, and so by then they will see your face, for sure.But yeah, the bigger things are, first of all, they want to see a steady income. So they will want to see usually the last four income statements or salary statements. So if you don't have those yet, it's going to be really difficult. There is a way where someone can vouch for you. It's called a Bürgschaft. When I first moved out, my mom, you know, signed a document like that and basically said: Okay, if he doesn't pay the rent, I'll pay it, and here's my salary slips. But yeah, you're in a better place if you already have a steady income. And rule of thumb in terms of what people want to see is the rent shouldn't be more than one third of your income. So basically if you're applying for a place that is €500, your income should be €1500. Otherwise, if it's half or more of your income, it probably won't be enough.
[51:55] And then the other thing is the Schufa. So we have this weird credit rating system in Germany, it's borderline shady because it's a private company that does it. We could do a whole episode about this, I feel. But basically everybody, every person who lives in Germany, has a Schufa score. And basically it can be either positive or not positive and you need it to be positive. If it's not positive because maybe you've had a credit in the past and you were late on all the payments - or I don't even know exactly what you have to do to get it to be negative - but then it's going to be really difficult. So first of all, you know, try to always pay all your credits and everything, so that doesn't happen. And then you need to get a statement from them, which costs like €30 or something. But by law you can also get it for free once a year, or twice a year, but the free one looks really shitty, unfortunately, and also has all of the information, like all of your personal information and bank accounts and stuff on it, whereas the €30 one just says positive and nothing else, and your name. So in the end, even though it sucks, I would recommend paying for it and getting it. I don't really know what happens if you've never lived in Berlin before, if they will even send you something ...
Jae:
[53:28] That was going to be my next question.
Manuel:
[53:29] This is something that you'll have to report back on. I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know how you, when you first ... like when do they ... When do they first know about you? I would assume after you first opened a bank account in Germany, because it's tied to all your bank accounts and stuff. So that's one other thing that is going to make it hard to find a permanent place all by yourself when you just get here, because you're not going to have these things, unfortunately, and they all want to see it.
[54:05] And the last document is the - and it's a wonderful German word - Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung, and all that means is a piece of paper, a letter from your previous landlord, saying that you have always paid your rent. And it is very important. And so this is something that I would even get if you're moving from abroad, I would get it essentially from your current landlord from where you live now, and have them sign it, just so that you have this document, even if it's from another country. Because they all want to make sure. I feel like there's like a secret society of landlords, and they all have sworn an oath that they will never lie about this, and that they will warn the other landlords if any tenant has ever been late on their payment, so they can warn the others and never give them another apartment. Because yeah, they all insist on this document.
Jae:
[55:04] That's good to know. Yeah, definitely. I think that that's something I can ask my landlord right now, which, I'm always on time, so if any particular landlord in Berlin is looking for a tenant, I pay my rent on time. Always.
Manuel:
[55:18] Yes. Yeah, man. I feel like I went through a lot of information just in a long monologue. Do you feel like any of this is helpful at all?
Expectations
Jae:[55:31] Oh my gosh! All of it was helpful. Like there's a lot of stuff I didn't even realize that I needed to know, especially when it comes to the documents. And then things like the cold rent and the warm rent, those are two super big things. And then just the personal impressions, and you know, making sure that you have all your shit together. Essentially, I think those are important things that I mean ... in all honesty, I think the biggest one that you really brought to me was just I need to have realistic expectations too. So I think, yeah, it was much, much, much needed.
Manuel:
[56:06] That's good to hear. Yeah, be realistic, be positive, both of them at the same time. And it's really about endurance a little bit. I think it's normal that it just takes some time. And I mean I've gotten to know you well enough now that I'm also kind of optimistic that you will find something in no time, and it'll be like the Berghain thing. You'll be like: I don't know what anybody's talking about, I found my dream apartment in two weeks! That could happen, and I wish nothing more for you than that you're able to make that happen. But if not, don't lose lose hope. And just realize that, I mean, everybody's in the same place. Lots of people are coming to Berlin for good reasons. Berlin has this diversity, people from all over the world, and it's just the situation we're in. It's just a lot of people. And I think if Berlin grows a little bit, and you know, not everybody lives in the city center, that's also a reality, and hopefully we can build more apartments, so that more people can find a place, you know.
Jae:
[57:25] I agree.