Show Notes
- Klaas bringt DICH in den exklusivsten Club der Welt (Late Night Berlin)
- Map of all German States (Wikimedia Commons)
- German federalism: How does it work? (DW)
- Easy German Podcast episodes about all German states:
Transcript
Manuel:
[0:10] Justin, we're back in studio. You're in a good mood! You're a cracking up ... Warm. You're warm. You're ...
Jae:
[0:10] ... I am. I'm warm ... I have a 'varm flasher'.
Manuel:
[0:19] Wärmflasche. Very German of you: Wärmflasche. Good thing to have in the winter. Do you want to briefly describe it for any listeners who don't know?
Jae:
[0:28] It's basically a hot water bag that's made out of rubber or rubber materials, and you put hot water in it and you just hold it. And that's it.
Manuel:
[0:39] You hold it. Or you stuff it under your ...
Jae:
[0:41] Or you stuff it under your shirt, and you put it on your tummy and it makes you warm. And it's such a nice feeling.
Manuel:
[0:46] And I think it'll be more energy-efficient than turning up the heat.
Jae:
[0:52] Honestly? Yes. Yes. I feel very warm with it.
Manuel:
[0:54] 'Cause like a Wärmflasche lasts you an hour at least, I would say.
Jae:
[0:58] Yeah. And you just refill it up. It doesn't take long to put the water back in to ...
Manuel:
[1:02] I mean, boiling water uses a lot of energy, don't get me wrong, but it's electric energy ...
Jae:
[1:06] But not as much energy as you would if you were turning on the heat for ... Yeah.
Manuel:
[1:10] ... Right. Yeah. Wärmflasche. I have ... we have, like, three at home.
Jae:
[1:15] And I bought six for the office.
Manuel:
[1:17] In a wide variety of colors!
Jae:
[1:20] Yes! If you live in Berlin, go to DM. They're like €6 or so each.
Manuel:
[1:26] And something that you had to learn, is that you're not supposed to fill them up to, like, capacity. It's like 60-70%.
Jae:
[1:31] Yeah. Which makes sense, now that I did that. I ...
Manuel:
[1:35] Now that you think about it.
Jae:
[1:36] Yeah, because it moves around and stuff like that. If it's too big then you can't really feel the warmth of it.
Manuel:
[1:42] Absolutely.
Jae:
[1:43] Fun facts, guys. Fun facts we're learning here.
Manuel:
[1:45] Fun facts. Okay. So, something I wanted to ask you is, how do you feel about our new solo episode concept?
Jae:
[1:57] I like it. It's tricky 'cause, like ... I'm like ... How do I talk for so long about one topic?
Manuel:
[2:03] It could be short. You know, you could ...
Jae:
[2:05] It could be, and I'm trying to give myself permission. I think the episode that I did was like 20 minutes or so, the one about artists. But I think it's good. How did you guys like it out there? I'm trying to figure out, like, what more topics I can talk about, because I'm trying to avoid going into a circle or talking about the same things over ...
Manuel:
[2:24] No, no, I don't think we should ever force it. You know, we're just ... I mean, for me personally at least, I'm trying to talk about things in my solo episodes that I feel like, would bore you, you know, but that I still want to get out. Because I ... like, we got some ... we got, like, a nice review on Apple Podcasts ...
Jae:
[2:41] Yeah.
Manuel:
[2:47] ... Hint, hint, nudge, nudge, this is a thing you can do! ... where someone said ... Oh, let me just read it. Where is it? "This podcast is like having two friends who help you navigate the bureaucratic challenges of moving to another country while simultaneously speaking to the psychological burdens of such a move." Thank you very much, Consumer451, for this lovely review. I think this ... we're trying to strike a balance of us just having fun, but also I do want to get information across.
Jae:
[3:21] Yes. Which is very, very, very important.
Manuel:
[3:26] So that's what I'm using these solo episodes for. It's like I have some facts that I want to just talk about. And then... so that's what we're doing. Every second episode is, like, a solo episode, and then otherwise it's us sitting across from each other, and then we have some guests that we want to invite. And that's the other thing that I wanted to mention is I really like how we're getting more and more emails from people who are recommending things to us, or suggesting topics we could talk about, or even kind of inviting themselves on the show, which honestly is fine, because I think if you have something to share, then, you know, tell us, and come on the show and share it with everybody.
Jae:
[4:14] Yes. Also, as you guys aren't already following us on Instagram, please follow us.
Manuel:
[4:18] That's right. Another new update. We have an Instagram account.
Jae:
[4:21] We do: everyone.berlin - it's the same as our URL. We're occasionally posting reels of, like, little snippets and stuff that we talk about in our episodes, but it would be really great if you, you know, followed us and supported us and feel free to message us also on everyone.berlin if you wanted to send us, like, a nice message or whatnot. We will be responding to those. At least I will, becaus I mean, Instagram's on my phone, so it's very easy for me just to respond very quickly. Yes. So, yeah, feel free to reach us on that platform. And then we'll also be on TikTok soon, too. So stay tuned for that.
Manuel:
[5:01] Enough with the self-promotion! Today we want to talk about Berlin, as we do, but in the context of the rest of Germany.
Jae:
[5:11] The best of Germany? ... Oh! Yeah!
Manuel:
[5:13] The rest! Yes. Let's ...
Jae:
[5:16] I was triggered by that word: Best equals Germany ...
Manuel:
[5:20] No, no, no, no, no. We're going to compare Berlin to some other cities/regions of Germany. And the reason we're doing this, is that you recently left Berlin and ventured into some other cities. How did that came to be? I think you were forced to take vacation and you were like ...
Jae:
[5:43] I was forced to take vacation, which actually, I was very not ... not used to that, because America is like: And we'll maybe give you two weeks - and an entire year. Yeah.
Manuel:
[5:52] In Germany. It's like: Get out of here! Six weeks!
Jae:
[5:55] You know, I'm like, what do I do with my time? So, three weekends ago I actually went to the small little city, called 'Hohinland' - or village, Hohinland. H-o-h-e-n-l-a-n-d, and ... You know ... What he said! ... All right. I, like ...
Manuel:
[6:13] ... 'Hohenland' ... 'Hohenland' ... 'Hohenland'.
Jae:
[6:18] 'Hohinland' sounds better, in my opinion. But I was only there, technically, for a friend's birthday, and we stayed at an AirBnb.
Manuel:
[6:27] So this is ... I'm just looking on Google Maps. It's in Brandenburg, about... what is it? ... an hour and a half out of Berlin?
Jae:
[6:33] Yeah, an hour and a half. Driving ... Yeah. Very, very short.
Manuel:
[6:37] ... Oh, just an hour. Okay. Mm hmm. Close to the Polish border.
Jae:
[6:40] Mm hmm. And then I went to Leipzig.
Manuel:
[6:43] Wait! What? Ah! Höhenland! It's an umlaut! Höhenland. What did you do there? It looks like a tiny, tiny, tiny village.
Jae:
[6:50] Yes, it was literally ... We were just at an AirBnb the entire weekend ... Yeah, it was my friend's 30th, so he invited a few of his family, his co-workers, and a few other friends.
Manuel:
[7:06] ... Just the party? What was your impression of Brandenburg?
Jae:
[7:09] Okay, so fun fact - this is what happened. I was ...
Manuel:
[7:13] So, Brandenburg, let's just ... I want to go into all the different areas of Germany. So Brandenburg is, like, the far east of Germany in what used to be East Germany. I'm just saying ... Continue, continue!
Jae:
[7:26] Okay. Okay. So fun fact - I was very excited to go, and we were all planning on just taking, like, cars or whatnot, because transportation that you get outside of the major cities is very limited. But the people who were going to be driving with me, they were going to go at, like, five or six and, like, I was off for an entire day and I was, like, waiting to go. And I'm very impatient. I'm learning, but I was like, you know: I'll just take a train, and then get an Uber from wherever the city ... Right.
Manuel:
[7:59] They were going to drive you, literally drive for you, and you're like: Hell, no, I'm not waiting. I'm taking my own train.
Jae:
[8:05] Lessons were learned, lessons were learned. So then they ... It ends up, like, the train ends up going to the city that is like ... maybe 20, 25 minutes outside of 'Hohinland'. It starts, like, a W 'narshen' and then ... something like that. Hold on, guys. I really actually want to get the ...
Manuel:
[8:27] I'm not seeing it on the map. It must be small.
Jae:
[8:32] It's on the map. It's there.
Manuel:
[8:34] Wer ... Wern ... Werneuchen. I don't even know how to pronounce it.
Jae:
[8:38] Werneuch ... That...
Manuel:
[8:39] It's like the closest city that has a supermarket and a gas station.
Jae:
[8:43] That's it. Yes. Yes. That. That. That city, then ...
Manuel:
[8:44] Werneuchen. Werneuchen. I don't know how to pronounce it, but ...
Jae:
[8:50] Wow!What? You don't know how to pronounce it?
Manuel:
[8:52] Werne-uchen? I don't know.
Jae:
[8:53] Werneuchen ... Wer ... Okay, well, this city is where the train took me, right? So I get off and I am looking on the Uber and I'm looking on the other ride shares. And there is nothing!
Manuel:
[9:09] Oh, I could have told you. There's no Uber there.
Jae:
[9:11] Nothing! So I'm, like: Taxi? ... No! Bus? ... In a few days! I'm like: Oh shit, what did I do?
Manuel:
[9:18] And so just to put this into perspective, it's another 16 minutes by car between these two cities, or a three-hour, 15-minute walk: 16 kilometers.
Jae:
[9:34] Yes. And there's a 40-minute bike ride, which I was heavily considering doing.
Manuel:
[9:39] But you didn't have a bike, did you?
Jae:
[9:40] No, but I was going to find a bike. There was, like, a renting bike thing, but I didn't know how to use it, so I couldn't. So I was like: Ah, fuck, what did we do? So I was, like, walking around, like, the little city or whatnot. I go to, like, a gas station and I'm trying to figure out what to do. They were no help. I call my friend. They're all drunk, so they can't drive me. They can't leave the house and come. So I'm like: Oh shit, what did I do? So literally - I haven't told anybody this - I literally went ... there was, like, a car shop, like not far from the gas station. I walked there and I'm trying to use Google Translate to ask these people if they could drive me to, like, the house, because it was ... it was 15 minutes. I got a No, obviously. So I'm literally standing on the side with my thumb out, trying to see if anybody would take me. But we live in Germany, so guess how many people stopped and actually gave me help?
Manuel:
[10:44] Hey, hey, hey! I have hitchhiked several times successfully in Germany ... Not so much ...
Jae:
[10:46] Yes, you ... Me? Not so much. I am a black man ... in Brandenburg. It's not going to happen.
Manuel:
[10:52] ... In Brandenburg. Good luck! Yeah. I mean, we ... Let's not make jokes. But I was going to say we're lucky you didn't get killed.
Jae:
[11:01] Yeah, honestly. But then, thankfully, by the grace of whatever is out there, I messaged the people that I was supposed to be driving with. And funnily enough, they had to pass this street ... So I just waited 10 minutes and they came.
Manuel:
[11:15] ... They passed through. Yeah, obviously ...
Jae:
[11:20] So I ended up going with the first one. 'Cause, like, I am thinking, like, I keep forgetting that: One, Berlin is a bubble.
Manuel:
[11:22] ... Wasting a ton of time in the ...
Jae:
[11:29] Two, I am in Germany and a lot of very small villages and very, like ... stuff like Ubers and taxis don't exist outside of this city. And I did not realize that. I am just a naïve American living in this one city and trying to experience the rest of Berlin or ... the rest of Germany. But, like, the people there, I guess, were people like ... I realized because Germans outside of Germany ... or Berlin, are ... they won't help you, really. But they're also not very, like ... They're cordial. That's the word I would give them. Very cordial. Very. Like, I experienced a lot of, like, politeness. But, like: We're just going to do the bare minimum, but as kind and as quick to ... gives you a ... to make you go away as possible.
Manuel:
[12:26] Yeah, interesting. I mean, Brandenburg really is interesting. They're struggling a lot still, because, you know, everything concentrates in Berlin, and a lot of people that want to do something interesting with their lives, just leave. And so it's kind of a vicious circle, like, all this ... We're generalizing, obviously, but there's definitely a problem in Brandenburg, where there aren't any good jobs, so the people people are leaving. And yeah, it's difficult and you kind of feel ... Like, I mean, I was also at a several-day wedding celebration in Brandenburg. You can really rent some really nice AirBnbs there and just spend some time in a house, but otherwise there's not that much to do.
Jae:
[13:09] Yeah. Oh, it was nice.
[13:14] Yeah. There's not too much to do at all.
Manuel:
[13:16] And you know, there is a problem there with, you know, AfD, like neo-Nazi people who, yeah, basically sympathize with neo-Nazis or are neo-Nazis. There are a lot of good people there as well, I'm sure, but that's what everybody, sadly, thinks about, you know ...
Jae:
[13:38] I would compare that area to kind of how we have, like, San Antonio, San Marcos and Austin. And between these, like, generally popular cities in Texas, we have these, like, small little towns where not a lot of people live. Very conservative, very, like, quiet, very much ... 'You don't really go into them if you don't need to go into them' type of vibe, but it is what it is. So that was my experience there.
Manuel:
[14:10] So I have a map of Germany here, and if I remember, I will put it as a chapter image so you can look at it while you listen. If you go further south, you end up in the state of Saxony, Sachsen, and there's two cities there, Dresden and Leipzig, two big ones that are both, very much worth visiting. Dresden obviously has a ton of history. I highly recommend doing a walking tour there and visiting that city. And then Leipzig is smaller but is often referred to as, kind of, the new Berlin. It's yes, the it's a difficult comparison because it's much, much smaller, but it is definitely kind of an island in the state of Saxony, which also has this kind of neo-Nazi problem, blah, blah, blah. But Leipzig is super left, super hip.
Jae:
[15:10] It seemed like it when I visited.
Manuel:
[15:11] And ... and yeah. And, like, it has, a lot to offer that people who come to Berlin are looking for in terms of nightlife, jobs, cafés, restaurants, atmosphere, people - at a smaller scale. But it doesn't have some of the problems that Berlin has. Mainly, no apartments.
Jae:
[15:33] Yeah. And it's also very clean compared to ... That was the ...
Manuel:
[15:37] I mean, most cities are clean compared to Berlin.
Jae:
[15:40] Yeah. That was the first thing I was like: Oh wow! What a clean city! I mean, that's ... The bar is low!
Manuel:
[15:47] Absolutely.
Jae:
[15:49] But it did seem like that ... I was only there for, like, a day and a half, but it definitely ... It was very pretty, I would say, going back to the clean thing. But it's definitely got this, like, idea vibe of like, if you don't like that type of strain that Berlin gives you, Leipzig is, like, a nice little escape.
Manuel:
[16:08] A good alternative. Yeah.
Jae:
[16:10] For me ... Technically, it's too quiet for me and it's too, like, empty ... No Berghain!
Manuel:
[16:14] ... No Berghain! ... So you're ruling it out?
Jae:
[16:17] Yeah. Granted and like, I wasn't around ... Maybe if I'm around more youthfulness? Like, it could have been, like, a different experience. But I really just saw, like, the, you know, the touristy stuff, went up to the top of, like, the Panorama bar - not the Berghain one - but, like, I got to see, like, the entire city or whatnot. And like, it was nice. It's very, very small, but it is a good, like, alternative if you want ... It's a good place if you want to get outside of Berlin. I could ... I would recommend it because the FlixTrain also ... is like €5 ... One hour ride.
Manuel:
[16:50] Right? Yeah, I would say go there for a weekend. I went there for my birthday with a few friends over the weekend. It was really nice. And if you are very frustrated by Berlin's housing situation and you don't need to be here, but you're just kind of looking for that vibe, consider Leipzig for sure. Consider it.
Jae:
[17:11] Yeah, I would definitely recommend ... I would definitely consider Leipzig. I mean, especially the fact that you can get somewhat a nicer apartment for cheaper there, and like you might have to do more work to put in to get more social aspects of it, just because it's not Berlin, but it is still, like, a city that still has, like, a lot of potential. For me, this is kind of like San Marcos in Texas. It's like a college city. So ... but so, it's very college-heavy. This one is not necessarily too college-heavy, but still people go there if they don't want to pay those things, but they still want that, like, that subtlety of the nightlife or whatnot. Yeah, I would definitely recommend looking into it.
Manuel:
[17:56] Speaking of Berghain, have you - I mean, like 5 minutes ago - but have you seen the video? There's this German TV show, Late Night Berlin, and they're doing ... It's like a very famous German comedian who they ... He also has another famous show, and they did a segment where they basically ... It's hard to describe, like they kind of pranked the Berghain. Like, you know, how Bergahin is is very famously ... It's hard to get in. And so he tried to kind of decode: How do you get in? And then had people do these things, like dress up a certain way, behave a certain way, and then had them line up and try to get in. And he filmed it with a hidden camera. Quite, quite interesting, quite entertaining. I will link this video in the show notes. Yeah. You're going to ... I mean, you you've gone there a few times ...
Jae:
[18:47] Ooh, I will insist. Please. I would love to watch that! I've gone there quite ... Yeah, I've been there four times.
Manuel:
[18:54] Yeah. I think it'll crack you up. Okay, going down the map even further south ... We're not going to go through, like, all 16 states. We did this on the Easy German podcast some time ago, so I can link to these episodes. If you speak some German, you can listen to Cari and me kind of describe all 16 states.
Jae:
[19:15] Okay. And can you explain that to me? What's the difference between us? Like, because it's not like America where you have, like, the states and the cities ... Like, what is a state and then what is a city?
Manuel:
[19:22] It is. It is. It's ...
[19:29] No, it is the same in the ... I mean, we're both ... What's it called? We're both federal. Federal states. Meaning there's ...
Jae:
[19:43] So is Berlin, a state?
Manuel:
[19:44] So Berlin and Hamburg and Bremen are the three city states where it's a city and it's also a state. Or technically speaking, it's not a state. It's just a city representing itself. So it's a city state. Don't quote me on that! But it's basically the same as a state, but it's also, like, the state ends where the city ends. But those are the three exceptions. Otherwise the states are just states. What's different compared to the US, is that I think the states in the US have a lot of power, whereas in Germany the federal government, I think, has overall more power. But there are some things that are constitutionally, kind of, in the ... Like, the states decide, for example, education, and this has to do with our history where after National Socialism, the Nazis, people said: Okay, we we don't want to have education be on a federal level, because then they could just dictate to all the schools what they have to teach. So it needs to be ... Like each state can decide. Which now turns out to be a huge problem, actually, because if you want to, like, put computers or iPads in all schools, it's like really difficult if every state kind of does their own thing. So there are some things that are decided by the states, but in general, it's the same concept as in the US.
Jae:
[21:08] Interesting. Okay.
Manuel:
[21:09] So we're not going to talk about all 16 states. You can listen to these German episodes and ... But just kind of going down the map, like let's just look at some of the cities that either you or me have been to. Obviously, we're going to reach Bavaria and then Baden-Württemberg, two very big states. You haven't been to Bavaria?
Jae:
[21:31] Mm-mm, I've only been to Cologne.
Manuel:
[21:33] Bavaria. Only been to Cologne. We'll get there. Okay. We'll get to Cologne. Bavaria, just quickly, obviously, is a huge state. It's what the Bavarian culture is, what internationally often is the German stereotype, like the Lederhosen, and, you know, Weißwurst, and those kinds of things. Munich is, in and of itself, an island, and Bavaria ... Because you do those stereotypes if you go, like, far down to the south of Bavaria, you will find them to be true. But Munich is a very international city.
Jae:
[22:08] But I still hear that Munich is still very, like ...
Manuel:
[22:11] Very different than Berlin. Very, very different vibe. And, I mean, we've talked extensively. You you did the solo episode about being an artist in Berlin, and how everything goes, and everybody can be kind of their true selves, and stuff like that. That vibe, I would say, definitely doesn't exist in Munich. In Munich it's definitely more of a, you know, you dress up before you leave the house kind of vibe, and see and be seen. I'm generalizing, of course, but it ...
Jae:
[22:44] That's the vibe I've gotten from everybody who's described Munich as that.
Manuel:
[22:47] Yeah. And it feels like what I ... I went to Munich several times, but there was a period of a few months where I went every week from Monday to Friday to work there. And then every Friday night I would come back to Berlin, and just sitting in the subway in Berlin on my way back, going home, I just ... I had this feeling every time, even though the subway was dirtier and louder and kind of more chaotic, I just ... I felt like: Okay, I can breathe again. Because all of a sudden you could hear at least three different languages at the same time, at all times, and you have these characters - problematic characters, sure - but you have ... I don't know. It's just ... It's Berlin, right? Like, so much is going on, it's so diverse, and obviously it's not all shiny. There's problems related to these things, but it's what makes Berlin, Berlin. And I just feel so much happier in this environment than in a clean city where everybody ...
Jae:
[23:56] ... I do too ... Cookie cutters. Yeah.
Manuel:
[23:57] ... is a little similar, kind of. Not to shit on Munich - it's a beautiful city and it definitely has a high quality of life, and depending on what you're looking for, it might be your dream city. But it's just very different than Berlin, for sure.
[24:16] Baden-Württemberg is ... Yeah, I haven't spent that much time there. I've been a few times to Tübingen, Freiburg ... Those are beautiful cities close to the Swiss border, also quite Left, and a lot of students. They're not places where I would personally want to live long term, but definitely visit them. Then let's go up, so, kind of, the middle of Germany - I hope no geography nerds are listening to this! - but, like, Frankfurt obviously is a giant city or ... Not giant! It's not a giant city! It's a big city. It has a giant airport, that's for sure. I think a lot of Germans have this stereotype that Frankfurt is just a big airport and banks, and otherwise it's just boring and there's nothing. I have heard from several people who live in Frankfurt who have told me: No, it's not that way at all. It's actually a really cool city with a lot going on. I can't really speak to it. And then, going up further north so now we're in the west, kind of that whole area that is bordering Belgium and the Netherlands ...
Jae:
[25:31] Mm hmm.
Manuel:
[25:32] We are in Nordrhein-Westfalen, North Rhine-Westphalia, which is the biggest state in terms of inhabitants. So it's ... I don't think it's the biggest one by area - I think that's Bavaria - but a lot of people live in North Rhine-Westphalia. NRW is the short ...
Jae:
[25:55] What is ... Is there, like, is it just a very popular place for people to go or ... ?
Manuel:
[25:59] So it's just that there is a lot of big cities all squished together. If you look at the map, you see Essen, Dortmund, Duisburg, Düsseldorf, Cologne - they're all together.And actually if you counted them as one city, which you might well do because some of these cities, it just takes 20 minutes in, like, an S-Bahn to go from city to city. So it is almost like being in one big city, but there are different cities, and if you took them all together, it would be the biggest city in Germany. And I really like this state and this area and these cities, partly because I was born there. Like I was born in Münster, which is not part of the Ruhrgebiet, not part of this conglomerate of cities, but part of this state. And ... Well, you went to Cologne, so let's hear your thoughts about this city. You went on Karneval, so kind of a ... kind of a special situation.
Jae:
[26:53] I went on Karneval. I went this past Friday. Would you like to explain to everyone what Karneval is? Because I don't want to give a ...
Manuel:
[27:01] I mean, we shot a video. I mean, I think most people are familiar with the concept of Karneval in Germany. There's a few cities where Karneval is really big. Cologne is probably the biggest one ... Dusseldorf ... there's some others. And yeah, I mean, there's like a season. Like it starts on November 11th, 11.11, and it goes all the way until the Fastenzeit, like the ... where you fast, like, those 40 days of fasting And, during that time, especially in the very beginning of that time, in the end people dress up and costumes and drink alcohol. That's how I would summarize it. Yeah.
Jae:
[27:40] Yeah. Okay, well, then that's how I was summarize it as well. It was literally ... I told my friend it was like a daytime Halloween, like everyone was dressed up. I didn't dress up for this because I didn't even know what to do, but it was really nice. I think Cologne is a very pretty city. I will give it that.
Manuel:
[27:59] So you said this before. Cologne is not pretty. Like what you have to know about Cologne is that it was basically completely destroyed after the war, and with some lucky exceptions like the cathedral - the famous cathedral wasn't destroyed - but they raised all of ... like, they rebuilt it very fast and very ugly ... uglily ... uglily!
Jae:
[28:11] I guess that's what ... Yeah.
[28:20] Ugly. I guess ... Okay. For me, I love water. I love like ... and the fact that there is that river and the bridge that for me, you got me, I'm sold.
Manuel:
[28:21] ... Right. It has that going on for itself right there, right? ... The Rhine! Yeah, the Rhine is beautiful. What makes Cologne beautiful to me is the people. Cologne is a city that I would live in, and have lived in the past for one semester, because I like ... Like, people there are really easygoing and really friendly. You didn't ...
Jae:
[28:45] Okay. Interesting. I ... So the day of the Karneval, I felt pretty chill. I felt like everything was like, okay, for the most part. I didn't ... I didn't really meet people during my time here. And that was a little bit of the problem. I would say the energy ... I was ... So I can see this from a few perspectives. Just the outside looking in, I do see that vibe, but me being there, to be fair, I didn't feel comfortable, nor did I feel welcomed, and my anxiety was, like, through the fucking roof. I cried at one point during my time at Cologne.
[29:33] It's like, okay ... I did go to a hostel and that's where it made me cry.
Manuel:
[29:34] ... What happened? ... You went to some hostel and ...
Jae:
[29:40] I went to this hostel and on my Google map ... on my email - I'll even show Manuel - it says my check-in time for 00.00 ...
Manuel:
[29:54] Okay, okay, okay. But you had an issue with a hostel. I don't think this is ... this is representative for Cologne.
Jae:
[30:00] Yeah, but you have to understand, as a traveler, as someone who is, like, doing this at all, it groups up together, because it wasn't the only experience I had. I had one at the cathedral.
Manuel:
[30:06] Yes.
[30:10] What happened at the cathedral?
Jae:
[30:11] I'll first... I'll explain the hostel one. So it said my checking was at 00.00. So I was there. I was there literally at 23.58. I was there to check in. And the guy was like, "We don't have your check in." And I'm like, "What do you mean? You can see right here that it says it, right?" So I'm like: Okay, that's fine. I will just ... I'll just chill. I'll just .. And then they ends up giving me a room. So I pay and everything like that. I sleep. Everything goes fine. The next day I get up, I have breakfast, you know, I go out to see this city for some time. So I come back midday because I'm going to take a nap. And then I try to get into my room, but it won't unlock the door, like my key won't work. So I go downstairs and the guy is like, "Yeah, we had to change the lock because you're not supposed to be in there." And I'm like, "What do you mean? I paid for Saturday." He's like, "No, you paid for Friday." I said, "No, I paid for Saturday. You can see that I booked it. You can ... I couldn't even book it for Friday whenever I did that." Well, he was like, "Well, that is wrong. The check in time is wrong. You're supposed to check in at this time. You're supposed to check out at this time." And then he was just going back and forth to me and, like, it was so, like, aggravating a scary because I have anxiety very bad and it's been really rough in my time here.
[31:33] So like ... like, I'm literally there about to cry because I'm just, like, so frustrated. The guy is not helping me at all. No one else is really helping me. So I'm just there having going back and forth like he's making me trying to pay for this extra night. So I ended up paying for the extra night and I go back home and I call my mom. I did cry! And I was so ... it was like: I just don't know why is this keeps happening to me? And it was just very ... like I didn't feel supported. And it doesn't feel like a lot of people, like ... In Berlin, I'm more or less okay because I'm used to everything here. But, like, outside of this, it feels like people just really just keep to themselves and they don't help at all. And I don't like that because I am coming from the South, which is very Southern hospitality. We help you, we look out for strangers, you know, we're always going to be able to, and we're always going to accommodate. So this guy just kind of going back and forth to me, showing no sympathy to me - and I was already on edge because at the cathedral also keeping my ... I ... and the fact that I am a black man, really, like I ... It fucks me up sometimes because every time I go somewhere, I always have to think about: Am I going to offend people? Am I being scary? Am I ... ? We're going to do an episode about being black in Berlin, in Germany one day.
[32:49] But, like, it's something that is just always on my mind. And when I go out of Berlin, it's even higher because I don't feel comfortable around Germans. To be fair, I love people around, but as a whole I don't feel comfortable. So I was at the cathedral and I was going down ... because they have a museum, and then, like, I was going down, but then I saw that they had these booklets that were, like, by the, like, the front guy in front ... the reception guy. So I just go back up. I just wanted to just peek at it. Two of the people were like, already like, "That's not in English, that's not in English, and you have to pay for it." I'm like, "I'm just looking at it ... I'm just looking at it. It was €1.It was €1. I could have paid for that. And how do you know I don't know German? I did not speak one word.
Manuel:
[33:36] ... Oh my God ... Well, that's racism for you.
Jae:
[33:38] They just assumed. And then I was like, I just looked at it and then, like, so the entire time I was in the cathedral, I was on edge the entire time. So then the hostel thing happens right after that. So I was like ... I was trying to be calm that entire day, but I was just so tense. And then not a lot of people spoke a lot of English either, so I just realized that I will not be traveling outside of Berlin unless I'm with somebody who speaks German or is comfortable, or I just won't be traveling outside of Ger... outside of Berlin, period. And like, I don't want to have that perception, but it's like my ... like, let's say, my anxiety was bad. And right when I stepped off that train to get to Berlin: Oh, my gosh! Like what you said, that breath. I was like: Ha! I'm back home. And, like now, everything that I experience in Berlin, I'm like: Okay, that's fine!
Manuel:
[34:34] Yeah. This is ... I mean, I'm glad you told these stories, and we definitely have to make that episode about being black in Berlin. I think those stories about ... like, especially that hostel story about someone not showing empathy and just being, like, "No, you booked wrong. Deal with it," is normally the kind of thing that you would hear about in Berlin, where this is like a thing where in Berlin you kind of expect rude service or bad service, whereas in Cologne you would actually expect people to be more helpful and more friendly. I think, yeah, part of what you experienced was racism, partly with the hostel. It might have just been a bad hostel. Honestly, I hope you're writing a review. I want to highlight, though, that from my experience ... Like Berlin, it's interesting because you said you felt ... you feel safer in Berlin because it has more diversity and it's kind of ... it's more open in that sense, but it's also more rough, like ... I feel like ...
Jae:
[35:40] ... I will ... And I think maybe I'm just used to Berlin, to it's, maybe, toxicity. You know, wherever you go back to the toxic people that that you had ... Yeah.
Manuel:
[35:46] Yes, you have Stockholm Syndrome ... You're like: I love Berlin now! I love that you treat me like this!
Jae:
[35:52] Yeah. I guess it's like something that I'm just now used to. And I guess I did have that expectation that if I go outside of it, it might be ... Because that's why I said it looked nicer to me because, like, it felt like it was very sunny, like people were happy, smiling ...
Manuel:
[36:08] It was sunny the day you were there. It's not ...
Jae:
[36:09] Yeah. And everyone was drunk. So maybe maybe people were nicer because they were drunk, too. But I was like: Oh my gosh! Like, it feels more welcoming. That's what it is. Welcoming. I didn't feel welcomed there. I did not feel welcomed. In Berlin, I guess because there is a wider crew of people who probably experienced the same things like that, Berlin attracts a bigger international city, so if you ignore the Berliners or the people who are rude, you have these people who are very open, who are very: Look, we understand. We get it. And that that's what makes Berlin safe for me, is having those people. I didn't have any of that when I was in Cologne.
Manuel:
[36:48] That makes sense. Okay, going up further north, we already mentioned this conglomerate of cities, Duisburg, Essen, Bochum, Oberhausen. This is kind of the Ruhrgebiet, which used to be defined by, like, coal mining and stuff like that. I like this area. I went to school in a city very close to this area, but I don't know how how I would describe ... like, it's hard to describe it.
Jae:
[37:20] Is it a place you would live? Or a place you might visit?
Manuel:
[37:25] Yeah, I mean personally I'm happy in Berlin now, but it is a very livable ... It's just, it's not one big city. It's a lot of bigger cities, so it is a very different vibe. And I kind of feel like it's the kind of area where you, kind of, want to have a car, for example. And I love being in a city where I can just cycle everywhere, that kind of thing. But I do like the people there. Like, traditionally ... I don't know, it's like a workhorse area, right? Like people ... Like 40 years ago, many people were working in the coal mines there, and stuff like that. And now it's actually, like, a cultural hub. There's tons of good museums and culture and stuff like that. Like, it's it's ...
Jae:
[38:13] It's like the Midwest in America ... I really ... because it helps me understand sometimes.
Manuel:
[38:15] ... You're always trying to draw some comparison, which ... Yeah. Yeah. It's like the Midwest - not really, but kinda! Going up even further north, still close to the border with the Netherlands, we have Münster where I was born. Beautiful city! Beautiful! It's ... I mean, not just ...
Jae:
[38:33] How was that? How was living there?
Manuel:
[38:37] ... Not just because I was born there. It is ... it is small, but it is a city, and it has a large university, so lots and lots of students.
Manuel:
[38:50] And then pair that with, kind of, a population that is quite conservative, and that gives it this kind of yin-yang ...
Jae:
[38:58] Mhm. Okay.
Manuel:
[38:59] You know, you have the party crowd, you have the students, but you also have the rich, conservative people who are just there for generations.
Jae:
[39:07] I'm not trying to compare again, but that sounds like Orange County. That's Orange County.
Manuel:
[39:10] That's Orange County, mid-size Orange County ...
Jae:
[39:11] Yeah, because Orange County has ... like, that's where I went to school. Big university. Pair that with a lot of rich conservative people, very beautiful city. You have this big yin and yang going on too.
Manuel:
[39:26] They should put that on there on their city ... inside Münster: The New Orange County ... The German Orange County!
Jae:
[39:30] The County!
Manuel:
[39:35] The main thing that's awesome about Münster is that everybody owns three bicycles and everybody just cycles everywhere. You have, like, one main bicycle, and then you have a guest bicycle, and you have a backup bicycle. Like, literally, I'm exaggerating slightly, maybe, but there are definitely more bicycles than people in Münster. Like, the average number of bicycles per person is above one. And there's this amazing cycling highway where, what used to be the the city walls, is now essentially a ring that's surrounding the city that is specifically made for pedestrians and bicycles. And you can cycle all around the city really fast. And so, anywhere you need to go, you can just go onto this kind of highway cycle, and then go back into the city. And it's just amazing. So for me personally, it's just too small at this point, but it's ...
Jae:
[40:37] Is this small like Leipzig's small or ... ?
Manuel:
[40:41] Yeah, I think you can compare them. Let's just really quickly check this, so I don't lie to you. Münster has 318,000 people, and Leipzig has 600,000. So Leipzig is almost twice as big. So Münster is actually small.
Jae:
[41:01] Oh, wow! Wow, that's small! Small, small. It sounds like it would be bigger, the way you describe it.
Manuel:
[41:03] It doesn't feel that small, but ...
[41:08] ... Münster has cultural importance. I don't know. It's a city that people know, in Germany. It's ... yeah. Okay, and so then, to finish up - obviously we've skipped many areas and cities - let's go to the north. If you go to the north by train from where we just were, you're going to at least stop in, if not change trains in, Hannover. Hannover. Hannover.
Jae:
[41:39] How do you pronounce that? Hannover. So not Hannover?
Manuel:
[41:39] Hannover Hannover. It's supposedly the city that has the clearest accent of German, or the most neutral accent of German. I don't know how much truth there is to that. The city itself - I'm really sorry Hannoveranians - is boring! Like, there's nothing there. Like, it's literally the reason why everybody knows it, is because it is so central that you often change trains there, you know. It's kind of a hub for trains. It's like Atlanta, but for trains. And in Germany. There you go!
Jae:
[42:15] Yeah. My train stopped there. Okay. Great comparison!
Manuel:
[42:24] And it used to be, or it's still ... It has, like, a giant convention center. And so many big, like, convention or trade shows happen there.
Jae:
[42:32] So it's more of like a meeting place.
Manuel:
[42:36] Right. But if you go there and you go to, like, the the old town or the city, you're like: Oh my God, this is so boring! There's nothing here!
Jae:
[42:44] Not much to see.
Manuel:
[42:45] Yep. Sorry, everybody who's there. And then, going north, we have Bremen, which is, as I mentioned in the beginning, a city state, even though it's small. Bremen is a small city, but it is its own state. There is historical reasons, I'm sure. 560,000 people, so smaller than Leipzig, bigger than Münster. Bremen is beautiful. I cycled from Münster to Hamburg once, and stopped in Bremen, among other places. And it's really beautiful and nice. I I can't really speak to how liveable it is, but I think it's a really nice, beautiful city. And then, obviously, further up north we have Hamburg. You haven't visited Hamburg yet?
Jae:
[43:35] I have not visited Hamburg.
Manuel:
[43:37] Hamburg is my number two, I think, in Germany. Hamburg ... I mean, in a way, Hamburg is like Berlin, but better in many ways, really. It doesn't have this chaotic vibe as much as Berlin, but in a good way, you know, like, Hamburg is still big enough that you have a lot of craziness going on. But it is cleaner and it is ... at least feels greener. I mean, part of the reason is that it has water, right? It's not by the ocean, strictly speaking, but the ocean kind of reaches into Hamburg, like the Elba. You know, it's like the arm that reaches into Hamburg, basically.
Jae:
[44:24] Yeah, I see that. And it's right by Denmark, too. So.
Manuel:
[44:27] Right. And it's just ... Yeah, if you go to the harbor, the Hamburg harbor, but even other districts in Hamburg, it's just really, really beautiful and nice. And people there are nordisch. I don't know how to describe it. They are ... I would say they're a little bit more easygoing than in Berlin, and a little bit more chill.
Jae:
[44:52] I've heard that. I know a couple of people from Hamburg, actually. It seems like a lot of people ... like Hamburg and Berlin connect. Like, people go back and forth. And that's the vibe that was described to me as well..
Manuel:
[45:04] Yeah, it's a very liveable city, and if you want to be in a really big city, but you don't care for Berlin's craziness and chaotic-ness and lawlessness - I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean ...
Jae:
[45:20] Hamburg's like Houston.
Manuel:
[45:22] Hamburg is Houston?
Jae:
[45:24] I would say, because I always compare Berlin to Austin.
Manuel:
[45:28] We should make all these comparisons. We should turn them into like city friendships, you know, partnerships.
Jae:
[45:33] Yeah.
Manuel:
[45:36] Yeah. And then, going up even further north, you eventually reach Kiel. It's like an hour by train from Hamburg, hour and a half. And I studied in Kiel, so I can talk about it.
Jae:
[45:46] Yes, I see it. You are right by the water. Right by the water. Right.
Manuel:
[45:53] Right, Right. We used to take a ferry. Like, straight from our university, there's a ferry that stopped at the university, and you could take it up to the beach, basically, and then have some beer after classes. So that was nice. Kiel is very small, but it has fresh air, for sure.
Jae:
[46:15] That's important.
Manuel:
[46:16] Yeah. It's being close to the ocean helps in terms of air quality and stuff like that. And if you like kind of this Northern Germany flair, then that's a great place to be. It's too small.
Jae:
[46:29] So my question to you is, for people who do want to travel outside of Berlin, what tips do you have for them?
Manuel:
[46:39] Do you mean in terms of where to go, or ...
Jae:
[46:42] Like yeah, I guess like where to go. Okay. Like, you're ... like, if people do want to leave Berlin where are, like, your top, like, three choices? Like, that you got, that you should visit? ...
Manuel:
[46:53] To travel or to move? To travel, I would ... It depends. This is a difficult question. I mean, if you want to see another big city, go to Hamburg, go to Cologne, go to Munich. If you want to see ... not the big cities ... If you want to go hiking, go to Bavaria, go to Baden-Württemberg, go to Saxon Switzerland, which is close to Berlin but there's some nice hiking there. Lots of options. If you want to go to the ocean, go to the Baltic Sea or the North Sea in northern Germany. Both have beautiful places, beautiful islands. So many options! I think the question we should ask is, if you don't want to live in Berlin because of whatever reason, but you do want to move to Germany, what are some good alternatives? We already talked about Leipzig being a city that is smaller but similar in vibe and energy as Berlin. I think Hamburg is great. It's a different vibe, a different energy. But if you just want to be in a really big city, Hamburg - amazing city! I like Cologne. You had some bad experiences. But Cologne, I think, in general, is an open city.
Jae:
[48:07] It seems like it, it truly does. Like I would say, my experiences may not be everybody's, and I would encourage people to give it a chance because, like, when I ... My first impression was really like this, like, really cool thing.
Manuel:
[48:19] Right. But I think, like comparing it, for example, to Munich, I think chances are higher in Munich that you will kind of feel like an outsider, or like people aren't really as welcoming as they might be in Cologne. With the disclaimer that we're generalizing and there will be exceptions everywhere, and there are amazing people in Munich who will welcome you with open arms as well. But I think, in general ... like, we did street interviews in Cologne and Düsseldorf and asked people about these places, and they literally said, "I like that here it's really easy to make friends very fast." And even compared to other cities that are nearby in the same state, it's not the same. So yeah, those would be my recommendations. If I had to move out of Berlin but had to stay in Germany, I would go to either Hamburg or Cologne.
Jae:
[49:14] Hamburg or Cologne, okay. Okay, I like that. And my recommendation: If you want to travel, don't travel solo. Travel with somebody. Preferably someone who knows German as well. I love solo travel, but I don't think Germany is the place for me to do solo travel. Yet.