Diana Goldberg
Show Notes
Transcript
Help us! - everyone.berlin/help
Manuel:
[0:00] Hello. [I need help!] You do need help!
Jae:
[0:04] I do, I need a lot of help!
Manuel:
[0:05] Hello. It's us. We need some help, because as you may or may not have noticed, these episodes are coming out quite infrequently, and we want to get better at that. We want to record. But also we want to just focus on recording these episodes and we need some help, honestly, spreading the word and getting the word out, and part of that is social media, creating little snippets for Instagram, TikTok ... that's how I discover podcasts these days. I think it's not just a marketing job that you have to do. It's actually kind of cool to have those little snippets out there with interesting moments, but we just don't have time to produce these things. So we're looking for someone who can help us do this. Someone who is able to edit little snippets from our episodes, create a graphic, create subtitles, and then put it out on Instagram, TikTok, and then optionally if you have additional skills like maybe helping us coordinate with guests, inviting guests, organizing collaborations, maybe even venture into kind of merch, essentially we're looking for someone who can on kind of a freelance basis, yeah, help us, yes.
Jae:
[1:14] That's ... I mean it doesn't always have to be so so so consistent but someone that we can kind of bring into our little ...
Manuel:
[1:20] Exactly. If you feel like, [... community.] "I can edit a little clip and I can put it on Instagram, I've done this before maybe, or maybe I haven't but I feel like I'm gonna figure it out," go to everyone.berlin/help. And maybe you know someone, send them to everyone.berlin/help, and we would love to hear from you. [Yes.]
Jae:
[1:41] And you'll get a hug from me too.
[Intro Music]
Our Guest: Diana Goldberg
Manuel:
[1:52] Music! [Diana trumpet-sings: Daa-da-da-daa da-daaaa!] [Healthy topic!] Is that a career?
Diana:
[1:58] Yeah, it totally is. Yeah.
Manuel:
[2:00] "Totally is," says Diana Goldberg. Welcome to our little show that's been on hold for a while, we apologize. [Yeah.] But we're back.
Jae:
[2:11] We are back with the 58th episode.
Manuel:
[2:15] 58th episode? [Yes.] That's crazy.
Diana:
[2:17] Hey, thanks for having me.
Jae:
[2:19] Yes, thank you for being here. It's really great to have a musician on the podcast. I love music so much. It's like my favorite thing in the entire world. And I think Berlin is such a great place for music, I think, as well.
Diana:
[2:31] Yeah, for sure. I feel like every person I meet is an artist here.
Jae:
[2:34] Yeah. [On some level. We are a lot!] Berlin really has a magnet especially to creatives and artistic people [Yeah.] as a whole. Yeah, it has this special just energy, I think here that really makes it feel good to be an artist. [Yeah.]
Manuel:
[2:50] Yeah. So we met you on the street randomly while we were shooting Easy German. We asked you about your profession. You were like, "I'm a professional singer, songwriter, musician." And then we ended up shooting an Easy German episode together. And then we thought: Hey, this is actually an interesting story, because you are not from Berlin. You're German, but you moved here. How did all of that happen? And you're also very young and quite successful, so maybe give us the back story.
Diana:
[3:23] Yeah, so I'm from Munich originally. No, actually I'm from Stuttgart, I was born there. But then I moved to Munich because of my family, and I moved to Berlin last year because I was traveling back and forth all the time from Munich to Berlin and I felt like this traveling thingy that was fun like, you know, like during Covid or like after the the first pandemic .. .
Manuel:
[3:50] Why did you travel back and forth?
Diana:
[3:51] Because my producer is here and my label ...
Manuel:
[3:54] Oh. [Okay.] Are all the producers in Berlin? Are there no producers in Munich?
Diana:
[3:58] There are, and I think also like now in the last years the community has risen, but then there was nothing happening in Munich back then, and Joseph, who I co-write and produce mostly all of my stuff with, he's one of my best friends and I've known him since I was like 14 so we kind of grew up together, but I knew he was always in Berlin and I was always in Munich. And then we got together and like started to collab and wrote our first song together, but that was in Berlin and that was in his home studio. That's how my whole career started actually, so it was just in his like bedroom, basically. We recorded the first song and yeah, the rest is history.
Manuel:
[4:39] And how old were you when all that happened?
Diana:
[4:41] I was twenty-two or three, I don't know.
Manuel:
[4:49] And how long ago was that?
Diana:
[4:51] Long ago, like four years.
Manuel:
[4:54] Oh, that's so long! Four years! Holy shit!
Jae:
[4:58] And have you always ... Was music something you always liked to do, or was it something new that you were trying out?
Diana:
[5:06] I always wanted to be a singer and an artist, and actually I come from like a Russian-Latvian family or like Soviet family, and because of that, I come from like from a household with like very high pressure. So my parents never supported me as ... like in the beginning, and they never wanted me to do music, so I had to ... I studied health sciences and then next to it I ... like that was my profession. Like I went to bars and was singing covers and like all things like that. So I funded my studies with, yeah, just singing.
Jae:
[5:43] Oh, wow.
Diana:
[5:44] Yeah, but they were like ... they never supported me. But then I said, "You know, it's my life," [Exactly.] and kind of a rebel-ish story. And I just said, "You know what? I decide what I want to do and I want to do music." [Yeah.] "And that's what I'm going to do."
Jae:
[5:56] Aw, very inspiring.
Diana:
[5:58] They didn't like it, but that's okay.
Manuel:
[6:01] We just had a big discussion, pre-recording, whether or not we can safely play your music here. [Sure.] Because the rights management, you are saying, "Yeah, just do it." [Yeah it's my music. Why can't I decide?] Right, and I think you ... we ... that probably doesn't matter because you're represented by GEMA and if we play your music we might still get in trouble even if you've given us the okay. It depends. I don't know, we'll find out. I guess we'll find out the answer. But I don't know, maybe you can ... we can talk about ... I mean everything's on Instagram, Spotify. We'll link to your stuff in the show notes. But your music's quite dark. [Yeah.] A lot of it. [Yeah.]
Jae:
[6:41] I like the vibe! [Thanks!]
Manuel:
[6:42] I think everybody's reaction - because we just ... we didn't know about you before we met you on the street and then everybody's reaction was like, "Oh she's a musician, that's fine, let's play a song on Spotify - Oh! this stuff's good, it's actually good, very good." [I appreciate it, yeah thanks.] Okay, so maybe let's start with ... unless we want to talk more about your music, but I feel like you just want to listen to it probably. We should play it?
Jae:
[7:11] Yes, we should play it. I loved it.
Manuel:
[7:13] I'll just play like 10 seconds. I really will find out if this episode is not available on Spotify anymore, then we know it didn't work, the whole whitelisting stuff. But OK, here's a few ...
Diana:
[7:23] I will make sure this will work!
Manuel:
[7:24] You will make sure this will work!
Diana:
[7:26] Yeah, I'll fight! [Music]
Manuel:
[7:49] Okay, 22 seconds. That's probably safe.
Diana:
[7:52] Oh yeah, under 30!
Jae:
[7:53] The production is really good.
Diana:
[7:55] Oh, thank you so much. I did that with Tokyo Project - he's from Italy, it's a feature and yeah, that was really fun - and Joseph. By the way, did you know if you play a song, you have ... I mean, if you have Spotify Premium and then ... you have to play a song for minimum 30 seconds so that it counts as one full stream.
Manuel:
[8:15] Ah, so you didn't get paid for these 20 seconds.
Diana:
[8:18] Yeah, and the algorithm now probably thinks: Oh this song is bad!
Manuel:
[8:20] Oh no! [Don't worry.] I'll keep playing, I'll keep playing. [Yeah, whatever.] This stuff's really interesting to me, kind of the things you have to do in this day and age, and we'll talk about marketing and stuff maybe later because I think being a musician has really changed.
Why Move to Berlin
Manuel:
[8:38] But maybe, given that this show is mostly about moving to Berlin ... And I assume we probably have quite a few listeners who are musicians either as their full-time job or something they do on the side, and maybe you can talk about your journey from Munich to Berlin. You said you moved here because of your producer, but is it also the case where if you're a musician you kind of have to move to Berlin because this is where everything's happening? Or like what made you decide: Okay, I got to just move to Berlin?
Diana:
[9:13] So I didn't mainly just move for my producer, but I was really inspired by the city because I was here a lot of times. And I felt like really living in Berlin just gives me so many opportunities, because you meet a lot of people here. And then it's not just like: Oh, I have to travel back on Sunday again, I can't attend this event or I can't go to this party or this bar to like meet other people or this session in the studio, and I felt like I just wanted to ... Like I basically lived all my life in Munich and I just wanted to experience something new, something fresh, also just have more like creativity and inspiration. So we got an apartment and that was like: Okay, either like we're moving in two weeks or no! [Yeah.] And that was like the thing I was like: Oh my God, this is so stressful, I always wanted to be in Berlin but this was way too quick. I didn't want to just leave my in like two weeks. But I said, "Okay you know what? If I don't do this now I will probably never go to Berlin," because you'll always find an excuse, you know. [For sure.] [That's very true.] So it's actually the apartment. [How'd you find the apartment?] Oh, I was really lucky. [Everyone got lucky, it's the only way!] I want to know how you guys got your apartment. [Oh I got really lucky!] [I got lucky too.] Look at that! Cheers! We're lucky people! So my brother lives in the same building where I live now ...
Jae:
[10:42] Oh, nice.
Diana:
[10:43] Yeah. And so thanks to him, I got this apartment because he connected me with the Verwaltung ... It's like the people ... [The administration.] And then I quickly sent in my documents and because someone else didn't want this apartment, they ... At first they said no, but then because someone else like didn't take it, last minute they said: Okay, either you have to decide until tomorrow, will you move in in two weeks or not. And I said: Okay let's go. I'll take it.
Jae:
[11:14] I mean, that is a beautiful, beautiful, I think, opportunity. Any opportunity you have like that is a sign, you know, to come to this city.
Diana:
[11:21] Yeah.
Jae:
[11:22] I think Berlin calls you in very interesting ways.
Diana:
[11:25] Mmh.
Jae:
[11:26] That when you take a step back you're like, "Wait! That was meant to be."
Diana:
[11:28] Yeah, for sure. Wow, I love it.
Jae:
[11:32] And I have a question. So like, Berlin ... I love Berlin, I think Berlin is the best city in the world. As an artist, though, have you considered like living in other cities such as like Paris or London or even like the States one day?
Diana:
[11:46] Yeah, I actually really wanted to, or like want to, live in LA for quite some time and ... [LA?] Yeah. [You love driving that much?] No, but probably ... I don't know ... [Being in traffic?]
Manuel:
[11:58] You just want to be in traffic? Stuck in traffic for three hours every day?
Diana:
[12:00] But if you're like in the same hood where like everything's happening, you probably don't have to like drive a lot. But I'd really, yeah, I'd love to be at the beach and like surf, you know, after like a long studio session ... [Nah!] [Living the dream!] So cool. Yeah, we don't have that in Germany.
Manuel:
[12:16] Eh, you could move to Ostsee and it'll be colder, but ...
Diana:
[12:21] Fair enough, yeah, it could! But also, I don't know, I feel like LA is like so far away and I really love the music scene but I think it just makes sense to be there if you have ... like if my team is also there [Yeah.] because I work with ... What makes Berlin so special is that my very close friends are here, everyone i work with is here, and just like ... I have everyone here, so why do I have to ... like the grass is always greener on the other side, [Exactly.] I feel like here it's pretty green and I love it.
Jae:
[12:52] And especially in the digital age where, you know, you don't have to be in those cities to still connect to people.
Diana:
[12:59] Exactly. [You know, you can ... ]
Jae:
[13:00] And I think that's the beautiful thing about why I love living in Berlin is those opportunities still exist. You know, you're not choosing one or the other, you kind of also can get the best of all of it.
Manuel:
[13:15] Why did you decide to sing in English instead of German? Was that ever a conscious decision or did it just happen?
English Lyrics
Diana:
[13:22] It actually was, because ... So I mentioned that I came from this like Soviet family, and when I was a teenager we never really talked about feelings and you have to be like strong and independent and like not cry, and whenever I felt sad - and I feel like I'm a very emotional, sensitive person - I just ... I just like ... I used to always play the piano. I actually grew up playing classical piano for quite some time. But then singing on the piano, I just ... I just sat down and started to like play around and found some like nice melodies that inspired me to like just sing something that was in my subconscious mind, and that kind of helped me. It was like therapy. And I feel like, yeah, because I was singing in English, no one understood me at home, or at least my parents didn't. So it was like a secret language. I mean, obviously it isn't [Yeah.] but it was kind of an outlet to be able to process my emotions.
Jae:
[14:28] Oh, wow! That's a beautiful answer. And do you ever like want to like mix those or have you mixed those like languages into your music? Or do you think you'll stick to like the English route?
Diana:
[14:42] Actually I just want to be a free spirit in that sense, so if it ever ... if I feel inspired to do a German song or a Russian song, I will. And there's actually one song that combines all the languages I speak, yeah, and I showed it to part of your team from yeah Easy German. I played it here, the demo. [Which one is it?] It's called Je te Déteste. It's not out yet.
Manuel:
[15:06] Oh. Okay. [Yeah.]
Jae:
[15:07] Coming soon, coming soon!
Diana:
[15:08] Yeah, probably! It says, "I hate you," in all the languages I speak!
Manuel:
[15:13] That's beautiful, that's beautiful!
Jae:
[15:14] That's really beautiful!
Manuel:
[15:15] That's all we need! To get ready for the winter. Dark feelings. And ...
Diana:
[15:21] Well, I also have a positive one. It just came out last Friday: Gravity. So ...
Manuel:
[15:25] What's that about?
Diana:
[15:27] That's about falling in love again after a toxic relationship.
Manuel:
[15:30] What?
Jae:
[15:30] Oh. Gravity.
Manuel:
[15:32] Should we play it? [Sure.] 30 seconds. [No more!] 29 seconds ... get paid.
Diana:
[15:38] "Defying gravity." Oh we're playing it! Nice. [Music] I love that song.
Jae:
[15:56] Want to tell you, I love music. I love music.
Diana:
[16:03] I love watching you guys listen to my music. It's so cute.
Manuel:
[16:07] Okay, that's 28 seconds.
Jae:
[16:09] Really sorry about that.
Diana:
[16:11] I'm really getting poor, guys! No, just kidding.
Manuel:
[16:14] Alright, so do you still record those songs in your bedroom, Billie Eilish style, or how are these songs produced? [It depends.] and what does one do? Let's say I'm moving to Berlin and I'm a musician. Where do I ...? Are there places I can rent?
Studios and Rehearsal Rooms
Jae:
[16:30] I'm curious. I would love to record a song, honestly.
Manuel:
[16:33] Me too. Is there a place where it comes with autotune and a producer who just makes me sound like I can actually sing?
Diana:
[16:39] Yeah, there are.
Manuel:
[16:40] There are?
Diana:
[16:41] Many places. There's like Pirate Studios, for example. You can just rent a studio for like €30, €40, I think, a day.
Manuel:
[16:47] Pirate Studios?
Diana:
[16:48] Or like six hours, something like that. Yeah. They don't have the best equipment. They don't come with a producer, but at least you have basic gear there and you could record. There's actually one song that is out, White Lies. Joseph and I, we recorded it in the Pirate Studios. and I'm such a perfectionist that I re-recorded vocals for this song like five times and the vocal take that we ended up taking was the one from Pirate Studios! Yeah, and it's like you're in the basement somewhere and there's ... sometimes people like do parties there, I think it's not allowed but you know everyone ... like there's rappers recording their stuff there, singer-songwriters, everyone can just like rent a studio and just be there. But obviously you have to have a producer with you that knows the technicality.
Manuel:
[17:36] There's not just one there 24-7 who just sits there and is waiting for people to come in and record? [No, unfortunately not.] You know what I really love is Super-Sessions. It's a place where bands can practice, it's like ... I think it's expensive compared to finding your own band room that you just ... you know, lots of bands have like a garage or session room that they just pay monthly and then every Wednesday night it's theirs or whatever. But Super-Sessions is like that, but on demand. Basically, they have, I don't know, seven, eight rooms of different sizes from small to like a really big one that even has a piano and stuff. And you can just go on the website and you can say: I want to jam tomorrow between five and eight. And you just block it in the counter and it's reserved. And then you go and everything's there. They have the amps and even guitars, like you don't even need to ... like most people bring their own guitars, but they even have guitars. The drums are just there, mics, and you can just jam. And it's like, I've done it with Janusz, with my dad, a few times. And also my friend is also a musician. Whenever he comes to Berlin, I just book like three hours and we just jam our little hearts out and then we're done. And it's such low effort, you know. So that's really nice.
Jae:
[19:00] This comes back to this theme about Berlin that I always forget to realize is like there's a lot of hesitancy even for me to try things in the city. But really the bar of entry to a lot of like activities and a lot of hobbies and a lot of things you want to try is quite low. It's very low.
Manuel:
[19:18] Everything just exists. [Yeah.] [Yeah.] And you just go. You just book it on the website and you go.
Diana:
[19:23] Yeah. [Exactly.] Yeah, I love that. You know, actually, one of the first things I noticed and I really appreciated about Berlin is that the shops here are open until 11 p.m.
Manuel:
[19:33] Whoa, there's some that are open way later.
Diana:
[19:35] Like Edeka or something?
Manuel:
[19:37] Yeah, sometimes they're open until 12.
Diana:
[19:39] No way. Really? [Some of them.] Whoa, in Munich, everything closes at 8. So if you forget to get your potato or whatever, you're like, that's it.
Manuel:
[19:46] Probably better for the people who work there, but I want to go shopping at 11 at night.
Diana:
[19:50] Yeah, you have the spätis everywhere so you can get things like all the time.
Jae:
[19:57] Yeah yeah. So I have a question for you. I love asking artists this. When did you feel like an artist in Berlin?
Diana:
[20:04] Before I moved here.
Jae:
[20:05] Before you moved here, okay.
Feeling Like an Artist
Diana:
[20:08] Yeah. I felt like I belong here and I need to be in Berlin.
Jae:
[20:09] Ah, that's the correct answer. The only answer.
Manuel:
[20:15] And where does this feeling come from? Do you still feel like it now that you live here? Or was it just a fantasy or like a projection?
Diana:
[20:22] I feel like now that I live here, I've seen things of Berlin that are like the good and the bad stuff.
Jae:
[20:28] Of course.
Diana:
[20:28] And I think that makes this like the city very special to me, because I don't only appreciate it, or like I don't feel like I have like those rose-colored glasses about it and like: Ah, this is so amazing and everything's great. Like I also experienced boredom here, or like, you know, like the drug scene here is like crazy and just like people are crazy. There's like a naked person walking on the streets with like ... [Yelling at you!] Yeah, like yelling at you, but that's totally normal, right? That's like: Oh, that's so brilliant! [Yes.] And people who live here are like: Okay, yeah that's whatever, and you mind too, but like also like the beauty of it is that everyone is like so hipster and like feels free to like express themselves that you're not judged. And that's also something that I want to achieve with my music. That people feel safe and like not judged. And I think, yeah, Berlin has this vibe to it that, you know, you can ... on one day you can dress this way, then the next day you can be inspired to like dress in like another way, or like fashion here is also just very cool. And I love it.
Jae:
[21:31] It's a beautiful playground for artists. It's a place where even if you're established or you're figuring yourself out, you have this comfortability and space where you can explore and try different things. And you're also around people who are doing the same thing as well, too. And I mean, at least for me, that makes it so much more fun and so much more energetic. Like I lived in LA, and I think my problem with LA is that everyone is trying to be something big, in a way, so they really lose sight in the fact that they are still a part of a community. And I think that's something beautiful about Berlin is that that community is still there, especially as an artist. Even when you like see people who are just very wholesome, you're like: Wow, you're very talented, you're a very cool person. Like only in Berlin do I ever experience that type of culture.
Diana:
[22:23] Wow. Cool. That's beautiful. Yeah.
Manuel:
[22:27] I think you're doing a lot of shows, live shows. Do you ever ... Did or do you ever just play on the street? Or is that not something you're into?
Performing Live
Diana:
[22:36] I haven't done that yet in Berlin. But I feel like music is so universal and I wouldn't want to just limit myself to just playing in front of bigger audiences. I also confirm gigs, for example in Munich where the ticket price would be so much like lower. And when I used to have a booking agency, they used to just cancel gigs for me because they said, "No, this is your price, this is your range, this is what people have to pay to get into your concert." And I just know I have some fans, they really try to make it to every concert, and I just can't ... you know, sometimes I put them on the guest list or I just don't want them to like pay so much money. And I feel like music is just another like language that connects us all. Like why should it just be limited to the people who have money to like go to concerts? It should be for everyone. So if there's an opportunity ...
Manuel:
[23:30] But Spotify's not paying you because I'm just playing 28 seconds, so you gotta make money somewhere.
Diana:
[23:35] I know, it's okay, but you know I believe in like the energy you give, you get from somewhere else. [I agree.] Even if Idon't get it back through Spotify, maybe someone else here who listens to this podcast ...
Manuel:
[23:47] But what's the reality of making a living as a musician? Like can you share?
Making a Living as a Musician
Manuel:
[23:55] Like what are you actually making money on and what aren't you? Like from what I always hear is that the streaming music is basically amounts to almost nothing unless you're like Taylor Swift. Same with record sales, that's just not a thing anymore, and essentially, as a musician you make money with merch and with touring. Is that true?
Diana:
[24:15] Mm-hmm, kind of, yeah. So in terms of streaming, like 1 million streams is roughly $4,000. So if you think about ... like if you're at a label and then you have some kind of either 80-20 deal, so 80% belongs to the label, 20% to the artist. We have to do math how much belongs to the artist! And then the thing is, so if you work with a producer or like other songwriters, then the artist ... like from that artist's share, that 20%, for example, or 50%, you have to pay ... the artist pays like the crew. So ... and the label has like their share because they they would do marketing or give expense or like pay you money to get music videos produced, or like you have an advance, and it all works like a bank, so ... And that's something i didn't know before, like before starting in the whole industry, is that it's all like kind of a big loan of money and you have to recoup it. So you get some kind of, let's say, €100,000 and then over a course of time, three, four years, you have to, with your royalties, with GEMA, or for example, where you can have a split share, or through getting in streams on those streaming platforms, you have to pay back the label. And sometimes if you want to switch labels, then the other label ...
Manuel:
[25:42] Has to take on the debt.
Diana:
[25:44] Exactly.
Manuel:
[25:44] Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, they have to make their money somewhere. [Yeah.]
Jae:
[25:47] And how has that journey been for you? Have you been able to find an easy rhythm with it? Or have there been moments where it's been more difficult than others?
Diana:
[25:57] Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's definitely not easy to be a musician or artist because you have to ... there's just a lot of different components to it. I mean, financially you have to really be okay with the risk that comes to it and with not having a stable income all the time. And I also think I'm very grateful like for how my journey has been. I was with a very amazing label. I was with CloudKid first, they are Berlin-based and I was ... I'm still like in good contact with them, and they're ... I just really like them. And then I had the opportunity to release my more positive music. I mean, it didn't really fit to that label and they're more dark pop and like in the dark vibe. But I really wanted to also release my positive stuff. [You became too positive!] Yeah, because I feel like I'm ... you know, as an artist, but also as a person, I have this like broad emotions, like this spectrum, and it's not just dark, and now ...
Jae:
[27:00] Yeah, you're human your emotions change and stuff.
Diana:
[27:01] Yeah.
Jae:
[27:02] Music should also represent that.
Diana:
[27:03] Exactly and also in my private life like I'm a very happy, like positive person and the - thanks - yeah, and like the dark stuff is kind of my outlet of like processing like the darker emotions. But once I've processed everything I'm like: Okay, I've said everything, now let me think about like what else am I feeling? [I agree, you know, I totally understand that.] And I feel like I just don't want to limit myself to just be like: Okay, I'm a dark pop artist because that's where I started. I want to do whatever inspires me and ... because that's who I am. I'm the artist, and I can ... And then I had the opportunity to actually found my label [Mmh!] [Wow! Oh wow, you didn't tell us about that.] [That's probably better 'cause then it's a 100/0 split!] called Golden Tape Records. [How was it called?] Golden Tape Records. [Golden Tape Records.] 'Cause my last name is Goldberg so ... [Aah, nice.]
Jae:
[27:50] How was finding a label in Berlin? That's something you were new at.
Diana:
[27:54] Oh my God, I just wanted to give up, actually. [Yeah?] Yeah, because it was so hard because you have to ... like just there's so much bureaucracy behind it, especially in Germany. [Yeah.] But I feel like I have this thing or like this mindset of when something is challenging, you have to push through because there's like light at the end of the tunnel and you know it will just ... you will grow from it. And I feel like I've grown so much and I'm very, very happy about this decision [Wow!] because yeah, it just made me the artist/business person [Yeah.] I am today, and I'm grateful.
Manuel:
[28:30] Are you expecting applications from bands who are looking for a label?
Diana:
[28:33] Actually, like in the future I want to do that. But I feel like now I don't have the capacity. And if I want to ... if I do something ... I do mentor other people and like help them, but I only want to be a label for other artists if I can 100% ... or like if I have a team that will help me do the thing for other artists, because I don't want to do things like not wholeheartedly.
Jae:
[28:58] This is crazy. I love ... like I'm really ... like I love music. This is like something I'm very into and I have so much respect for artists, especially when they find their own label and they start producing their own music, because I can see through that that you are producing your own music. [Yeah.] I think that's such ... I mean every artist ... Ideally, I hope that every artist strives for that, so whenever you do that, that for me just is such a powerful statement and also [Thank you.] a good example for others, that they can do the same thing too. As you said, yes it's hard, but you can do it. [Yeah. For sure.] Very inspiring. [Thank you.]
Social Media
Manuel:
[29:37] Speaking of labels, I saw a thing on Instagram or TikTok the other day where someone was saying that they are a band, and they applied to a music label and they got the response back that the label won't sign them or even look at their music because they don't have - I forgot the number - 10,000 followers on social yet. Like apparently labels ... some labels now have a number of minimum followers on social media before they will even consider signing them, which I thought was very interesting, that this social media world is now such a gating factor. Because for a while it seemed like the internet is democratizing everything and it's still, I guess, the case that you can just record something in your bedroom and upload it to Spotify and now everybody has it, or Bandcamp or whatever. But I'm wondering how much time and energy do you spend on marketing yourself? Do you do social media because you have to or because you want to? What's that world like?
Diana:
[30:44] So I do social media ... I also do social media, of course. And I actually love sharing the process of how I record the song or how I'm in the studio with my community because I ... like I told myself, I just share things that are authentic to me. And I mean, there was a stage when I worked with people who tried to impose their ideas on me and I felt like that was the time, I think, when my fans didn't hear from me for like two, three months. I didn't post anything because I felt so under pressure to ... like you have to perform, you have to promote, and you have to sell, sell, sell, sell like your music yourself all the time. And I just didn't feel like that's authentic to me.
Jae:
[31:28] It can make you feel like a product sometimes.
Diana:
[31:31] Exactly. Yeah. And I'm a human being and I have my feelings, and if I feel like I'm overwhelmed like I just shut down. And I felt like for the beginning stages when I didn't even release a song, when I just like posted covers online. I just had so much fun like sharing this, just singing, just making other people like, yeah, laugh or like spreading good vibes or dark vibes whatever! [Sharing dark vibes!] [Emotions, just expressing emotions.] Yeah exactly, sharing vibes. [Exactly.] And I feel like energy is like such a contagious thing, and if I don't protect my energy, how can I give energy to other people? Yeah, and that's why like now I just do ... like just with music and social media, I do the things that are ... like make fun to me. And I feel like balance is such a big and important word in my life, and just being self-reflected, and that's something I try to like incorporate in the whole social media process and yeah, like you know, posting and sharing my music. And if I don't want to share something I just don't. And sometimes or like a lot of times there are things I can't share on social media, so I ...
Manuel:
[32:44] You can't?
Diana:
[32:45] Yeah, because you can't really talk about things.
Manuel:
[32:48] Like what? You can talk about it here! No one listens to this show!
Diana:
[32:51] No, no, I cannot talk about this here. It's confidential.
Jae:
[32:53] Because you're like a persona, right? So there's certain things that you have to kind of keep ...
Diana:
[32:59] Yeah, but also like about, for example, the industry, or like why a song was released, why it wasn't released, what the backstory really is. But I do share that on my shows. So if people come to my live shows, they know a little bit more behind the scenes.
Manuel:
[33:13] But then they could film and post that.
Diana:
[33:16] I know, but I tell them not to film.
Manuel:
[33:18] Oh, and they listen?
Diana:
[33:19] Yeah, I mean, I can see it. But like, yeah, of course, anyone can always film. [It's a trust thing.]
Filming at Concerts
Manuel:
[33:25] What's that like, though, the fact that everybody's always with their phones up now during live shows? Does that annoy you? I know some musicians are really annoyed by it. And I think I went to a Lumineers show a few years ago, or Imagine Dragons or something, Lumineers, I think. And they specifically had one song where they were like, "This song is cellphone-free. Please everybody, put your phones down and just be present during this one song, like do us this favor." And I thought it was cool that they did that, but also like there was a sadness in them where they're like, "Can we please have one song where everybody's just present and actually listens to the song." How do you feel about that?
Diana:
[34:03] I feel like I don't mind because I feel like I do understand why people record it, because they treasure the memory, and then they can look back to it, so ... or like share it with like someone who wasn't able to to be a part of the concert. And I actually always had this idea because like in the beginning it didn't ... it did ... it is weird, like you don't always film everything, but I got used to it and I feel like I, yeah, see things from like the listener's perspective, but I also had this idea once to like before a show to collect all the phones, you know, just like you have put them all ...
Manuel:
[34:40] Put them all in a black bag! [Yeah.] You'll get them back! This is not a robbery! You will ..
Diana:
[34:44] Yeah, or like you have kind of ... you know, like when you go into a club and you have this like Garderobe - I don't know what the English word is - you have ...
Jae:
[34:51] To put ... yeah, the coat check, essentially.
Diana:
[34:53] Yeah exactly, and thenyou have like a specific bag, maybe it will be like my merch or something, a phone bag or something [I think that's a really cool idea.] Yeah, and then you give away the phone and then you're like really there. You have to, yeah, be present.
Jae:
[35:07] Yeah, I think you ... I mean like you go to a concert to see the person in person, right? Like, if you're just going to be on your phone, why not just look on social media or something like that? Yeah, I think ...
Manuel:
[35:20] I mean, I think it's about balance. Like I also usually take one or two videos for like 30 to 60 seconds to have that memory, just like you said. And there are some where I actually do look back, or like I like showing people, like, "This show is so amazing. Let me show you this one-minute clip that I have, just so you get an idea." But there's also these people that you see that literally will have the phone up like during the whole song or several songs. And it's like: You do realize that this is a cell phone recording? It's going to not sound great. It's not going to look great.
Jae:
[35:54] And they probably won't watch it.
Manuel:
[35:55] And you probably won't watch it again. And it's like, yeah, for those people, I almost wish every concert just had like a camera in the back with like a feed from the mix from the soundboard, and you just kind of get like a QR code at the end and like here's the recording. Or you get it in the beginning. Like there'll be a recording of this show so you don't need to record anything. You'll have a good recording and you can listen back. That would actually not be that expensive these days. I mean, I can see why most artists wouldn't want to do that because you might want to charge for that then. But I don't know. I get annoyed by the people who just have their phone up the entire time.
Jae:
[36:35] Yeah, I can imagine. Speaking of live concerts, has there been a venue in Berlin that you really enjoyed? Like the experience?
Berlin Venues
Diana:
[36:46] Mm, I feel like every concert is different. Let me think. A venue that I've really enjoyed ... I've enjoyed all of my shows, to be honest. I mean, just like last week, I played a show in Mahlsdorf. And that was an open air show. Like roughly 600 people came and it was raining but like it was still like taking taking place at Fête Berlin. [Aah.] And the thing is I'm so clumsy, and we did a sound ... [I understand!] Oh my God! And the thing is, you know, normally when I talk, my family members are ... like also my boyfriend, he's like ... he takes away like the glasses around me so like I don't have the ability to spill it. And the thing is, we did soundcheck right before the show. And then I said to the crowd, "Okay, this was just soundcheck, and now we will go back and pretend like we weren't here and like start the show." And, you know, like I have this huge intro that we build, and like I come in like in a very dramatic way! And so I'm in the back of the stage, I just want to like ... it's my moment to like come in. And what do I do? There's like two cables and then I ... and there's videos of me tripping over the cables and there's like two things like they just fall down, and I immediately have to sing the song and I just can't! Like I'm starting to sing the song and I just can't stop laughing. And I'm like: Oh no! [Like this isn't intentional!] Yeah, and you know like instantly, you know, like a minute ago I said, "Oh let me do this mysterious entrance!" No, not gonna happen!
Manuel:
[38:35] I feel like if you're an artist and you haven't stumbled on stage, then you're not moving. [Yeah.] I feel like most really great [It's so funny!] onstage artists I've seen, fall and stumble and get up again and just laugh about it.
Diana:
[38:47] Yeah. I mean, I didn't fall, I still caught myself, but it was ... Yeah, I just couldn't stop laughing until like the middle of the song.
Jae:
[38:56] That's good though. I can tell you enjoy those experiences and stuff.
Diana:
[38:59] Yeah, you have to make the best ... You know, like I can't change it. [Yeah, exactly.] What can I do?
Mental Health
Jae:
[39:06] And I have like just one question about like especially being an artist, and you talked about how much struggle it is sometimes, how do you manage your mental health with being an artist and stuff? Because I think that's something I personally struggle with a lot, is believing in myself but also dealing with the doubt, dealing with the insecurities. And so, especially being in a city that yes, is really great, but it's also very hectic, and there's a lot of times where you stumble, literally but also figuratively. Yeah, I'm curious to know, how do you manage that?
Diana:
[39:39] So I really, really do care about mental health. I sing a lot about mental health, and I think I just really am very, very strict with my routine. And I know these things are there, like doubts and failures and worse moments, but I feel like I always tell myself, "I know this is here for me to grow and for me to be stronger, to get like stronger out of it," and I do share it with my close friends. But then also I have ... like I do a lot of things like journaling every day when I wake up. Nice. It really helps me, even ... Every day when I wake up I have this like routine where I meditate, I journal, and I just really start my day being grateful for like minimum five things that I'm grateful for. And there's this one ritual that I created for myself, because I felt like when I started to release songs, at some point, because I've had them for quite a while. Like right now, I'm listening to a lot of or like working on the songs that are not released that will probably come out in four or five months but like I'm finalizing them now. And listening to them like back and forth, I feel like when the song comes out I'm already working on something that's ahead of time in the future that I don't enjoy the moment, or I don't like celebrate myself for what I created or like just released right now. [Yeah.]
Diana:
[41:06] And I have this thing that once a week I take any day of the week and especially when I don't feel good, I have this like candle moment. So the thing is, on our birthdays, we always light candles just for the mere fact that we were born, so we are grateful for just like living, for being born. And I created this ritual for myself that I will just light a candle for celebrating my successes. [Wow!] And even if a success was, "I really didn't want to do this thing," or "I didn't want to do my taxes but I finally made ... you know, like I went one step closer to it, so I'm lighting a candle because I'm proud of myself." [Aah, that's really good.] Yeah, and I feel like that's that really helped me and to like ground me, because I feel like in this hectic world where you compare yourself to other people, you have to ... you can only compare yourself to the version you were yesterday or last year. [Of course.] And I think being mindful and, yeah, just celebrating yourself without approval of other people is a big thing.
Jae:
[42:11] That's exactly what I was going to say. With the celebration you have to be your biggest fan, in a way, because there's always going to be things that are going to bring you down externally and you have to have that internal anchor for yourself and constantly have to remind yourself of that too. I really like what you said about having a strict routine and a ritual in a way, because one day is going to be good but the next day can be really bad, and there's something that always can bring you back to like that center, and I think that's a really great idea too, especially in Berlin. Berlin is great, but as we all know, Berlin can be very, very, very, very, very, very hard as well, too.
Diana:
[42:49] Yeah, for sure. And to be honest I'm not always like my biggest fan. I'm more on the side of like being my worst critic, so I feel like this pushes me, it forces me to be a fan, [Yeah.] not even my best fan, but like to actually just give myself like nice credit and heads up.
Jae:
[43:06] Yeah, and give yourself grace. [Yeah.]
Advice For Others
Manuel:
[43:09] So, speaking of which, maybe to finish this, what piece of advice, besides being your own fan, can you give to people who want to make it as a musician, especially in Berlin? Maybe they're already musicians, they just want to move here, or they're already here but they want to be a musician. Is anything you'd do differently if you started from zero again? And what recommendations do you have?
Diana:
[43:36] So first thing I think that I would have loved to hear is: Just do it! Like just ignore what other people are saying. I mean, I eventually did that but I feel like a lot of people want to ... "I want to be a musician, I want to be this or that one day." But you can be it right now, so you know, just ... like what is stopping you? And it doesn't have to be perfect. You know, now that I listen back to like the very first song that I released, Occupy Your Mind, I feel like: Whoa, this is so empty! Nowadays I would have - or, I mean, I still appreciate it, I love it -and nowadays Iwould have put more stuff into it or like rewrote some things. But I feel like that's also beautiful because it shows the growth and the path you've been on. And if you never started, it will always stay an idea in your head. But what's the worst thing that could happen? Like just start and like write a song and release it and be disciplined about it. And I feel like that's one thing.
Diana:
[44:35] And the second one is to network, and to find other like-minded people, create a band, or create like a network of friends, producers that you want to work with, and then they push you. Because honestly, I wouldn't be here where I am today without my friend Joseph, because he was one of the first people who believed in me. And he said, "Hey, Diana, your songwriting is pretty amazing and the way you write melodies, it's catchy and it's great." And he was inspired by my ideas, I was inspired by his ideas, and we co-created this whole artist project together. And I think it's wrong to think, "I can do everything by myself." You don't have to. And it's always easier and more fun to have a team around you, especially if it's your close friends.