Jae:
[0:58] Yes.

Manuel:
[1:00] Any specific dates we want to give? Or just, later this year?

Jae:
[1:07] Mmmm ...

Manuel:
[1:08] We'll be back later this year.

Jae:
[1:10] We'll be back later this year.

Manuel:
[1:12] Before the year's up.

Jae:
[1:13] I mean like ... We'll have an episode by September 1st.

Manuel:
[1:20] Nice. Optimistic.

Jae:
[1:24] No, certain.

Manuel:
[1:25] Certainty.

Jae:
[1:26] Certain.

Manuel:
[1:27] But before we do that, we have one last episode that we wanted to get out. We also might break our break, because we have a few special things that might still happen. We'll see. So basically what we're saying is, don't count on a new episode every single week for the next few weeks, but there'll be something. Stay subscribed.

Jae Needs an Apartment

Jae:
[1:49] Yeah. To be fair, there's like 40 plus episodes.

Manuel:
[1:53] Exactly.

Jae:
[1:54] Catch up on that, during the time!

Manuel:
[1:57] That's true, Also in other news, in other bad news, or good news, depending on your framing, can I share this? Is this ... was this personal, or can we share this publicly?

Jae:
[2:10] What is it?

Manuel:
[2:12] You're looking for an apartment?

Jae:
[2:13] Oh yeah. I mean, that's nothing new!

Manuel:
[2:15] But now it's like serious.

Jae:
[2:17] Yeah, so we're back on the market. I'm single.

Manuel:
[2:23] I mean you had a temporary solution that was like temporary but with no deadline, and now you have a deadline because you're being kicked out.

Jae:
[2:33] Yes. It was actually very funny. I have really good intuition, like some of the best like scary good intuition, to where like if I feel something bad is going to happen then I'm like preparing myself for the worst because it's always going to be right. So I finally got my Anmeldung done for the place that I was living in now, but that took a lot of time because I needed an updated [mispronounced - Wohnberechtigungsschein] ...

Manuel:
[3:00] Oh, that!

Jae:
[3:01] That thing. Y'all all know what that is! And the landlord people weren't giving the main tenant people like the paper and they were being stubborn about it. But I finally got my Anmeldung done, and then I had asked the main people, because they sent me an updated contract and it ended on June 30th, and I'm like: Hey, so are we going to renew this or whatnot? And the lady never got back to me. And then the main tenant people reached out to me and my flatmate yesterday and was like: Hey, we have to like get on a call with y'all, it's urgent, and as all like discreet about it and stuff like that. We're like: What? It's a topic.

[3:41] And they were like: It's regarding, you know, the living situation. And I'm like: Ah, they're going to kick us out. And I was like ready to fight, like I was looking up tenant rights or whatnot because I thought ... because we've had like just issues with the main tenant people. They weren't like the best to always work with, so I was thinking that they were going to say we don't ... like they personally don't want to renew it with us, like the main tenants don't want to renew with the subtenants. So I was literally looking up the rights, which there aren't really clear documents on the internet about subtenant rights, so if anyone wants to do that, that could be a market.

Manuel:
[4:19] That could be a whole episode.

Jae:
[4:20] That could be a whole episode, because like I was trying to look up ... like there's tenant rights, but I was not sure about what tenant rights are actually still valid for subtenant rights. But anyways, I was still going to fight if I needed to, but they told us that actually the situation is the Hausverwaltung.

Manuel:
[4:40] Yep, Hausverwaltung.

Jae:
[4:41] Oh, look at me! They don't want the main tenant people to live there anymore. So that is one thing I do know.

Manuel:
[4:50] And how ... do you know how they're able to kick them out? Because there's not that many situations where they can actually do that.

Jae:
[4:55] I believe their contract was ending.

Manuel:
[4:58] Oh, it was a limited contract?

Jae:
[5:00] I think it was a limited contract, but still technically, I thought the rules were like there was only three reasons, like three permiss ... like there's three ... you can only get kicked out for three reasons, and I think one reason was like if the landlord's family was trying to move in or whatnot.

Manuel:
[5:17] Yeah, if it's not a company owning the apartment but it's a individual person, and that person wants to move in themselves or their family.

Jae:
[5:26] This is a company.

Manuel:
[5:28] So, okay, so then that can't really be the case, I think.

Jae:
[5:32] No. So I think the other two reasons that technically are valid, is like if there was like major reconstruction, which ... I should probably ask them what like the reasons are. Because yeah, you have, there's ... yeah, the property is required for a landlord or their family after the expiry date of the fixed term contract, substantial changes need to be made to the property that render it unsuitable for contract renewal, the premises are going to be leased for professional purposes, such as for use by an apprentice. And if none of these conditions are met and the landlord cannot legally terminate the contract, you as a tenant can request the contract be automatically rolled over into a lease with no expiry date. Should I bring that up to them?

Manuel:
[6:18] I mean, you can ask, but yeah, chances are ... Yeah. So now you're on a deadline to find a new place.

Jae:
[6:27] Yes, until mid July, which ... I'm actually gonna be optimistic. I am ... You know what? I'm gonna let this podcast be proof and example that I'm going to be very optimistic and very positive.

Manuel:
[6:38] Looking forward to the update in September when you're ...

Jae:
[6:41] Yes, it's going to be amazing, and I'm going to find a dream flat. 'Cause to be fair, to be fair, I did not like living here. But you know, like it's like for me, it's more ...

Manuel:
[6:51] You mean, at the place ... ?

Jae:
[6:52] Yeah, I didn't like the main tenant people. We always had issues or whatnot.

Manuel:
[6:54] Sometimes it's good to be on a deadline.

Jae:
[6:56] Yeah, you know what? And I kind of maybe just need that. So for some reason I do better under pressure. So like now I'm just going to be very optimistic and very positive that I'll find something better. Maybe I'll find my own flat now. So who knows? So thank you, universe, and I'll be able to update you guys in September. So if you know anything, let me know, but I know how it is here, so ...

Fees & Fines

Manuel:
[7:18] All right, moving on to our main topic of today's episode, you said that you would like to talk about fees and fines.

Jae:
[7:27] Fees and fines, yes. And a little bit maybe of an update or a change with one of our earlier episodes about registering for your visa here.

Manuel:
[7:38] Okay.

Jae:
[7:40] So I recently got ... So y'all know I was in the hospital last summer, right? And I was having to go to the doctors or whatnot. So I recently got a letter from TK, my insurance, saying that I owe them €1,900 for my time at the hospital, time in the medical, during the ... between June to August.

Manuel:
[8:07] Which we need to explain to people maybe from the US, thinking: Oh, of course your insurance is going to send you a bill for €2000 for a hospital stay for two days. That does not happen in Germany. In Germany, the insurance will cover that stay, no matter what the reason was, or what was done to you, or with you, or for you, at the hospital. The maximum bill that you should get for a hospital stay like that is a fee of €10 per day that you should cover yourself.

Jae:
[8:38] But that is only if you are insured.

Manuel:
[8:41] Of course, that's the point.

Jae:
[8:43] Technically, we did not start being insured until like September.

Manuel:
[8:49] Okay, but let's keep stay with this point for a second. Technically, you also can't live in Germany legally without being insured. You have to be insured. That's what I'm saying. The insurance company won't send you a bill. This whole story, when you told me about it, didn't make sense to me, because how can you even have an insurance company if you're not insured? Like, you know what I mean? Like ...

Jae:
[9:13] Yeah. I'm still confused, too. I tried to call them and they were very much: It's your fault, it's your fault, it's your fault. So I'm very confused.

Manuel:
[9:19] So from ... What it sounds like to me, somehow you registered with them ...

Jae:
[9:25] Yes.

Manuel:
[9:26] And they even sent you a card.

Jae:
[9:27] Yes.

Manuel:
[9:28] And you were under the impression that you are now insured through them.

Jae:
[9:31] Yes.

Manuel:
[9:33] But at the time you weren't employed in Germany yet. And so your employer wasn't paying for the insurance, neither were you through your salary or, which is the alternative, if you don't have a job but you still want to be with the public insurance, the Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, you can pay out of pocket, which, if you don't have a salary, it's like €250 or something per month that you have to pay, which is the the minimum amount to pay to be in this public insurance and then you're insured. But for some reason you did neither. You didn't pay for insurance, nor did your employer, cause you didn't have one, but somehow you still received a card from them. So you were under the impression that you were insured. You went to the hospital, showed them the card. They took the card, treated you, released you, then nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, and then six months later they sent you a bill.

Jae:
[10:33] Exactly that.

Manuel:
[10:34] Which is a very strange situation.

Jae:
[10:36] Very strange situation.

Manuel:
[10:38] And so you called them, and you didn't figure out how that all happened.

Jae:
[10:44] They said apparently, like I think I may have put my dates wrong or something like that, but they didn't verify what I had done. I don't know, I might have been at fault. Who knows?

Manuel:
[10:57] Is it possible that they tried to reach out to you after you signed up and after you received the card, and didn't reach you, or something like that?

Jae:
[11:08] No.

Manuel:
[11:11] It's really strange.

Jae:
[11:13] I mean, because they like ... because at that point, then there's this ... the bill they sent me was all the way until August. So it's recent, like after September they know how to re-contact me.

Manuel:
[11:25] I guess this is like important for everyone who's new here, to like verify that you're actually insured.

Jae:
[11:35] Yeah. That's my point that I would make.

Manuel:
[11:38] I think if you're employed, there's no way this can happen because your employer will make sure ... Like since your employer is paying half of your health insurance money by law, like, you know, whatever the health insurance costs, it's always half, half comes out of your salary and half is paid by the employer. And the employer would notice if they're not paying that, so ...

Jae:
[12:03] Yes, but like I said, no one would notice until I was legally registered as a German employee, which didn't happen until September.

Manuel:
[12:10] Right, you weren't technically employed.

Jae:
[12:13] Yeah, so like I would say like, I guess ... which is so confusing because when you do the visa process you are required to show proof that you have insurance,

Manuel:
[12:24] Right. And I think most people, like what I know from many other people who moved here, before they had a job, they didn't register with TK. They had some kind of like expat insurance that doesn't allow you to do ... like to go to the dentist, for example, for a checkup or any doctor for a checkup. But if you did end up at the hospital, this expat insurance would cover that. But you didn't have that either 'cause you thought you were insured through TK.

Jae:
[12:48] No ... that I was insured by TK. So now I am paying for it.

Manuel:
[12:55] Is there any chance that this will get resolved still, that they will waive this fee or what ... ?

Jae:
[13:01] Not from the phone conversation I had with them. They were pretty much saying it was my fault and that, yeah. But they said I can do a payment plan, so I will just do the lowest minimum, which they said whatever I chose ...

Manuel:
[13:16] "€1 a month for the rest of my life!"

Jae:
[13:20] Honestly, that's what I want. I want to do the lowest I can and see what I can get away with, and then eventually I figure out I'll be able to pay it off one day. But yeah, I really wanted to do this episode because I realized that I have paid a lot of money in fines.

Manuel:
[13:35] Okay, so this is the "I didn't know I wasn't insured" fine. I mean, at least ... I mean, €2000, obviously ...

Jae:
[13:44] A grand. €2000, because I went to the hospital. It was just a very inconvenient summer for me!

Manuel:
[13:48] Right, right, but this ... I mean, we have to clarify, this is a €2000 bill because you spent one night at the hospital. Imagine something serious had happened to you and you had undergone serious surgery, been in the hospital for months. Like, imagine that had happened while you weren't insured. I mean ...

Jae:
[14:06] And to be fair, like this is not to shit on insurance here, or healthcare in Germany. Like it's still really good compared to America.

Manuel:
[14:14] No, insurance is okay. It's just that you weren't insured.

Jae:
[14:17] I just wasn't insured, so ... which, yeah, it comes ... but we all learn, and I'm on a positive streak.

Manuel:
[14:25] I'm glad you're sharing this, honestly, because, I mean, neither of us really knows what happened and how this happened.

Jae:
[14:32] Yeah, and plus that was like when I first got here, so to be fair, I might have filled out the application wrong. Like ...

Manuel:
[14:38] No, I understand. And I think it's fair that you're saying this might have been my fault, but I just ... objectively, I don't understand how they can send you a card and then you're not insured and no one notices. Like they don't tell you: Hey, you have a card, but you're not actually insured. The hospital doesn't scan the card and reach out and say like: Hey, just FYI, this card doesn't work. Like it's normal that the hospital treats you no matter what, like under law they have to treat you, whether you're insured or not. But if you hand them a card and it doesn't work, it's like they should tell you.

Jae:
[15:15] That's what ... I was very confused. I don't know how it slipped through the cracks, but like in ... the person who called me, like ... I don't know, I just get very nervous talking to people on the phone as well, and I don't necessarily always know what the ... like the questions to ask or whatnot. Yeah, but c'est la vie.

Manuel:
[15:36] Okay.

Jae:
[15:37] It's life.

Manuel:
[15:38] What other fees have you received?

Jae:
[15:41] I mean, apparently all my fees are going to...

Manuel:
[15:42] Such a depressing episode to go into summer break!

Jae:
[15:44] I know, I mean, half of my time in Berlin has been quite depressing! Berlin ... the best way I can describe Berlin is it is a toxic relationship.

Manuel:
[15:56] Really?

Jae:
[15:57] Yes!

Manuel:
[15:58] Oh my God! Harsh words!

Jae:
[15:59] I mean, if you think about half the shit that I've been through...

Manuel:
[16:02] Can we just go back to Episode 1: Berlin Has Always Called My Name?

Jae:
[16:08] Yes, and you know what else calls your name? The toxic relationship! He loves me, I swear he does! And, I mean, like Berlin is really great. I know what I just, I ... it's like stoicism. The obstacle is the challenge, you know, the obstacle is the way. These obstacles are quite difficult and hard, but for some reason I'm still doing them. But yeah, no, I'm not going to lie and say it's been fucking easy. I mean, like every day I come to you with like a new issue that I have.

Manuel:
[16:40] And I nod and ...

Jae:
[16:41] Yeah! "Oh my God! What's it now?" I mean, so the other fees that I've gotten I mean, I've been ... like, it feels like most of this is kind of like self-inflicting, but I mean ... This is not technically a fee, but like I had to spend extra money when I first moved here. I bought a bike, and then I crashed that bike like the day after!

Manuel:
[17:01] You could call it a fee.

Jae:
[17:02] So that was a ...

Manuel:
[17:03] The "I don't know how to cycle yet," fee!

Jae:
[17:06] And that was like €300. And then I've gotten like, I think, four or five BVG fees.

Manuel:
[17:17] BVG, which is public transport, which I mean ...

Jae:
[17:22] Yeah. I mean, granted, okay, most of them were my fault for not paying. But then the most recent one was because I have the Deutschland ticket and I went to go to the lake and I brought my bike, but I had no idea that the Deutschland ticket does not cover bikes. I didn't even know what to ask.

Manuel:
[17:38] I feel like we talked about that on this podcast [episode]. Or I did. I had a whole thing about public transport and I mentioned that the ... I think that because I think the Berlin ticket, the whatever it's called - forgot the name, but the one that's only valid in Berlin - one of the benefits ... it's more expensive than the Deutschland ticket even though it only works in Berlin and not in all of Germany, so on the face of it, it looks like a no-brainer to get the Deutschland ticket, but the BVG ticket does allow you to bring a bike. And also on the weekends and after 7pm, I think. throughout the week, you can bring one other adult, several other kids, and the bike, as we already said.

Jae:
[18:21] Yeah.

Manuel:
[18:22] And so that's like one of the ... And it's transferable, so you can give it to ... you can give your card to someone else and they can use it, whereas the Deutschland ticket is personalized and you can only ... So those are some of the benefits. And so the Deutschland ticket does not allow you to bring a bike, at least in Berlin.

Jae:
[18:38] No. And the thing was like what was so frustrating is like, I would have paid for the bike ticket. Like it was literally, it's like €2, it's €2.50, but then ... Yeah, and I was like so confident too, like when they scan my thing I was like: Yeah scan it! You know, like I had the Deutschland ticket, I'm doing well. So then I think I've paid ... Oh, and then I also ... So you only have two weeks to pay the BVG tickets, right? So I think I was waiting for my next check to come in for ... I think a few of them, and I never ... I didn't read the print on the receipt to know that it was two days ... no, two weeks ...

Manuel:
[19:19] Pains me to ...

Jae:
[19:20] So they of course send it to the collectors, and then they send me a bill and then ... So I think I paid €112, so essentially double the the cost for, I think, at least two of my tickets. Thankfully, I had the €9 fund for two other ones But then the €9 fund people kicked me off because they were like: This is your third ticket, we can't keep paying for it. So, yeah. And then last week, I don't know if I mentioned this one, but I was, so ... Okay, yeah, there's more fines ... Not really fines, I've just been paying for a lot of shit. So my tire, I had a flat back tire, right? So I got that fixed. Like €32, good. We go to Teufelssee like the next day, my front tire gets flat!

Manuel:
[20:16] Which, I can also show you how to fix a flat tire, it's not that difficult.

Jae:
[20:19] It was like, I think, like the tab or whatnot, like, it was not like ... They had to actually replace it. And apparently this one, because my friend was going to do it, but you had to do something with the brakes too, like my bike was very special. But if you could teach me something, please. But then, so I had to get the new bike replaced, but as I was biking back with this flat tire, pum-pum-pa-pum! My front light fell off as well! So I'm just like: Of course! Right? So I like I ... then last Tuesday night I decided I wanted to go to McDonald's because I was just hungry and I was finished hanging out, I hung out with Lawrence that afternoon. So yeah, I came back and I wanted to go to McDonald's to you know get something to eat.

Manuel:
[21:11] "The American Embassy!"

Jae:
[21:13] Yes! And then as I was biking back, I saw there the police, like you know, it was like one of the big vans the police vans. I'm like: Oh shit. So then like I ... you know, just to have some light, I put my phone light on, because I have like a little phone mount there, and I stop right right there at the light at Badensche Straße. And then I go, and they pull me over, and I'm like...

Manuel:
[21:38] Wait, you saw the police, you realized: Hold on, I don't have a light. And instead of getting off your bike and walking until you pass the police car, you turn on your phone in the hope that they will accept that?

Jae:
[21:55] Yes, which ...

Manuel:
[21:56] You're an optimist!

Jae:
[21:58] I'm an optimist! I just wasn't thinking of this, like I didn't know that this stuff happens. So then they pulled me over, but they didn't pull me over because of the light. They pulled me over because they said I ran the red light.

Manuel:
[22:10] Oh, and did you?

Jae:
[22:11] And I was like ... I saw them right there, I stopped when they stopped. I'm not gonna run ... like if I'm doing it, I'm not gonna run a red light in front of the cops, you know? And then they said that I went, when the walking green light happened, so the pedestrian light.

Manuel:
[22:29] Wow!

Jae:
[22:30] And they said that you're supposed to go when the green driving light turns on.

Manuel:
[22:34] Which is true, but I've never heard anyone getting pulled over for that.

Jae:
[22:39] And then they breathalyzed me because it was late at night, and I was not drunk. And then on top of that, they said, "Well ... " And I was trying to be nice and very civil. I'm like, "Thank you, but can I please at least get a warning or whatnot?" 'Cause I know friends who got a warning before. They were like, "We're either going to give you a fine for running the red light, or for not having a light on your bike." So ...

Manuel:
[23:00] I hope you picked the light, because the red light is more expensive, I'm pretty sure.

Jae:
[23:03] They ... I said, "How much was it for each one?" They're like, "I don't know." So they just ... they gave me a ticket for the red light.

Manuel:
[23:09] Ah, c'mon.

Jae:
[23:10] They gave me the most expensive one. And I cried when I got home actually. I did, because I felt like I was like: I can not get a break here. So yeah, I have not added up all the amount of fines and shit that I have paid here in Germany, but dude, they love giving you fines and shit for everything.

Manuel:
[23:32] Yeah, I mean, I don't know what to say. I've gotten fined for things like ... similar things, you know. I've gotten stopped, pulled over by the police for using my phone when I cycle.
That happened like twice. And I think once I got a warning. I was really nice, I was like, "You're so right, this is dangerous," and ... which it is dangerous, and they were right. And they were like, "Okay, well, we'll let you go this time." And then another time I got a fine, and it was like €60. I think recently I got fined for cycling on the sidewalk here. That wasn't even the police, it was the Ordnungsamt, and they are even less ... they even have less humor than the police, usually, so that was a fine.

[24:25] I never use public transportation without a ticket. I remember like one of the fines that I got a long time ago that wasn't even in Berlin but it was a story that stuck with me, where I was at like a seminar with a bunch of young people, and we borrowed the leader of the seminar's car to run to the grocery store to get drinks for everyone. And we just like ... we were in a rush and I was driving this car that wasn't ours, and there was like a big spot in front of the ..., like very close to the supermarket and we just pulled into the spot like: Perfect! Let's stop here. Go to the grocery store and we come back out, and there's like three police people around the car taking notes and we're like, "What's wrong?" And there was a big sign like: Police Only like it was literally reserved for the police because it was in front of a police station or something.

[25:25] So that was pretty bad, and then since it wasn't our car, I was like, "Can we just pay cash now?" because we didn't really want the car owner to get in trouble, or even notice ideally.
And I remember there wasn't an option to pay cash, like the police will not accept money in Germany, for good reasons, but we had to ... but I was able to, to tell them my address, at least, so that I would get the ticket and not the owner of the car. Other than that, I don't have that many ... So I was going to ask you, are you paying the monthly fee for the public television and radio?

Jae:
[26:11] I don't pay that, technically.

Manuel:
[26:13] But you are ... But yeah, so this is something to keep in mind when you're getting your own apartment now, because now you were just subletting, so that person had to deal with that. But now that you're getting your own apartment, there's this, I think it's €17 per month, and you can pay monthly or every three months or every year or whatever fee, for public broadcast. And so they will also chase you down.

Jae:
[26:37] Which I did. I got a lot of emails until I told them that I was ...

Manuel:
[26:41] Right. You have to respond.

Jae:
[26:42] Yeah.

Manuel:
[26:43] Yeah, yeah. So that's another fine to be avoided, I guess.

Jae:
[26:47] Yes. I'm trying to think, what other fines can you get here in Berlin?

Manuel:
[26:50] I mean, yeah, fines are a thing, I guess.

Jae:
[26:57] They are.

Manuel:
[26:58] You should fine the Ausländeramt if they're like in issuing you your new visa or something. You should send them a fine for being late!

Jae:
[27:07] Yeah! I should. I should send everybody a fine. I'm like: Give me a break And the thing is, is like, I'm over here really ... like I think like I cried because I was like: I'm really trying my best and it's like, like I'm like every time it feels like I'm getting knocked down, but like I said, I am not giving up. I am going to stay. I'm really going to test this positivity thing for this one month at least. This one month, I'm like these people ... I will be the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt if I have to. Have you ever seen that show?

Manuel:
[27:37] I haven't.

Jae:
[27:38] It is about Kimmy Schmidt, who was this girl ... it's a fake show, but she was this girl who who got kidnapped at a young age and then they finally got freed, and now she moves to New York, which New York has that same rough culture as Berlin does, and just her having this overtly naive optimism about the world, and there's always these negative experiences and she's always positive about going through it. And I'm like: Okay, I will embody my most Kimmy Schmidt.

Manuel:
[28:11] Amazing.

Jae:
[28:12] Yes. But I won't let that get to me, because I have a good summer ahead. I'm going to see Beyoncé.

Manuel:
[28:19] Ooh la la!

Jae:
[28:20] Yes. And next week, next Thursday ... Next Thursday I'm seeing ... No, next Wednesday I'm seeing Beyoncé, and then I'm going to Helsinki.

Manuel:
[28:29] Yep.

Jae:
[28:30] And I'm going to London ...

Manuel:
[28:31] Part of the reason we're taking a break here is because Jae is not gonna be in Berlin much, he's ...

Jae:
[28:35] I will not be in Berlin much. Then I'm going to London for some time, and that'll be fun. And then maybe Vienna ...

Manuel:
[28:41] And then you'll come back and realize all these other cities suck, compared to Berlin.

Jae:
[28:47] I already do. Like it is nice to get a breath of fresh air, but like even with all of this shit that I've gone through in Berlin, like I would not have ... because, I don't know, like, yeah, the bureaucracy kind of sucks here and stuff like that. But then I'm like, I would still say the lifestyle that you have here on a very deeper level is something you can't get anywhere else here. And like, I think that's what's always like worth it about this city.

Manuel:
[29:13] Yeah.

Jae:
[29:14] It's, it's, it's, it's like, it's ... it has something that you can ... Like, yeah, you hear all my negative stuff, but I have a lot of positives too, you know, like ...

Manuel:
[29:24] We will talk in a few weeks or months, and I really hope you have some very good news. No fines.

Jae:
[29:32] No fines.

Manuel:
[29:33] Until then.

Jae:
[29:34] Fingers crossed.

Manuel:
[29:35] Fingers crossed.