Show Notes
- Americans in Germany Drinking Whiskey (Website & Podcast)
- AGDW - An Expat Channel (YouTube)
Transcript
Manuel:
[0:09] So three Americans, one German! We have two seasoned Americans who have been here for a while, and then we have a newcomer, and I'm really curious to hear kind of the things that someone who's new in Berlin coming from America has noticed, and then what you guys, as seasoned Berliners at this point, kind of have to say about the experience.
Alex:
[0:39] Jaded, cynical Berliners!
Manuel:
[0:44] I don't think you guys need...
Jae:
[0:45] Same here. It's the same, beginning and end.
Manuel:
[0:49] I don't think you guys need too much of an introduction. You are the hosts of Americans in Germany Drinking Whiskey. I think it started out as Americans in Berlin Drinking Whiskey, right?
Alex:
[1:03] That was the original thought, but we tried to reach out to the widest audience possible and we thought: Let's just do Germany, it's broad, and maybe more people will listen.
Manuel:
[1:10] Sure.
Geoff:
[1:11] And we don't just focus on Berlin, so it just kind of made sense to do Germany. (Yeah.) (Yeah.)
Manuel:
[1:15] But you are in Berlin, and you've had a podcast, a very popular podcast, for the past three years? I think you started in 2020? (Yes.)
Alex:
[1:25] Yeah, beginning of 2020, I mean, right when the pandemic hit.
Geoff:
[1:30] Like two weeks before the pandemic started, yeah.
Manuel:
[1:32] Yeah, yeah. And shortly after I started podcasting with my other podcast, Easy German. We started in October 2019, so we started about at the same time. (True.) And you guys actually just posted your last episode a while ago and you're venturing into YouTube now, which we definitely have to talk about.
Geoff:
[1:50] Yes.
Being an American in Berlin
Manuel:
[1:52] But why don't we start with kind of the main topic of what it's like being an American in Berlin? And I kind of have to hand it over to you guys now because, I mean, I'm German, I don't know anything.
Jae:
[2:05] Well, well, well! I've said a lot on this show. Yeah, so I'm curious. You guys are how many years in again?
Manuel:
[2:14] A decade.
Alex:
[2:15] So for me, it'll be 10 in October, and you've been here for a while.
Geoff:
[2:18] Yeah, I've been here 12 years as of this past May, so yeah, a long time. You'd be surprised how quickly it goes by. Yeah, you just wake up and you're like: 12 years!
Alex:
[2:30] Like wow! I'm in my almost mid-30s, and I moved here in my early 20s! It's kind of a bizarre feeling.
Manuel:
[2:36] At some point, you'll have lived here longer than you've lived there. That'll be it.
Geoff:
[2:41] I was thinking about that. That could be an awkward milestone.
Alex:
[2:46] It is an awkward milestone.
Geoff:
[2:47] Lived in Germany longer than I lived in the US.
Alex:
[2:49] Because right now it's about what? Like a third of my life has been here - I'm 32 years old - for like 10 years, so almost a third of my life's been here. But the first third, you're a kid, you know, so really my whole adult life has been in this country (Yeah.) which is kind of wild to think about.
Geoff:
[3:04] Same. I don't know how to "adult" in the US.
Alex:
[3:06] Not a clue.
Geoff:
[3:07] All my "adult-ing" has happened in Germany, so I wouldn't know how to get an apartment in the US or any of that.
Alex:
[3:12] No, people ask, what's it like in America with insurance and apartments? I don't know!
Geoff:
[3:16] I don't know. I have no idea.
Alex:
[3:17] I talk to my friends and it sounds really stressful. That's all I know.
Manuel:
[3:20] Even more stressful than in Berlin? (Oh, yeah.)
Jae:
[3:25] So, a question that I teeter a lot is, obviously we are Americans in Germany, but since you both have lived here for a long time, do you ever toy the line between if you identify more with the German culture and the German side of things, or if you still identify with the American side of things as well?
Alex:
[3:49] For sure. I mean, I think that's always a conversation happening like internally all the time. And I think it mostly comes out when I'm traveling and people ask you where you're from. And I default to Berlin. I say I'm from Berlin, but originally from the States. (Yes, that's exactly what I say.) But I feel more like ... I don't wanna say I feel German because I don't know what it's like to feel German because obviously I'm not, but for me, I feel more connected to the culture here than I do in a culture back in the States, if that makes sense.
Geoff:
[4:22] Yeah, for me, it's an awkward mix-mash because I feel like I'll never be German no matter how long I stay here because I didn't have a childhood in Germany. And my whole childhood, my whole growing up, becoming who I am, happened in the US. But like I said, my entire adulthood has been in Germany, so it's hard. I can't say if I feel more German or more American because it's such a mixture, you know? It depends on the day, and it depends on what we're talking about. But I definitely have a much more European-German mindset, I guess, you know, ( For sure.) in terms of politics and whatever, what have you.
Manuel:
[5:09] But Jeff, you've hit on an interesting point, I think, because I feel like in America, it's totally possible to move there and within the span of a few years, become American. And not just kind of, you know, get citizenship, but be accepted as: You are now an American, you're one of us. And in Germany, that's quite difficult. (Yeah.) We're still very much ... even though we consider ourselves an immigration country and we need immigration and all that, but it's still like: Eh, you weren't born here, didn't spend your childhood here, you're not really German. And especially if you're not white, of course, but then even if you're white, it's like: No, you're always going to be American, even if you spent the rest of your life here.
Alex:
[5:51] No, I think that's ... I mean, I guess it also begs the question, what does it even mean to be American? That means something different to everyone you ask, you know? And I think here, because it has more of a homogenous culture and society that's been around for ... I don't know, Germany's like a million years old, so it's been around forever, where America's very new and was made by immigrants - well, besides the atrocities that would happen with the Native Americans - so I think because it's a country of immigrants, it's easy to feel American, even if you didn't grow up there and have, you know, like the apple pie growing up, you know.
Geoff:
[6:29] Absolutely. (Yeah.) (Yeah.) Because it's been built on ... I mean, of course, now it's going more Right these days, but America, it's been built on immigration, and it's been a melting pot for people of all different cultures since hundreds of years, whereas I think Germany, the big immigration to Germany, has really happened in the past, like starting in the 70s and beyond, you know, the past 50 years, so it's more of a fresh thing.
Alex:
[6:56] And also, I didn't grow up watching German movies and German music, where obviously if you're German, you are growing up watching American movies, American music. (True.) (It's also true, yeah.)
Geoff:
[7:04] It makes it easier.
Manuel:
[7:05] But is that frustrating to you guys? That it's like ... that we don't have this culture, this melting pot culture?
Alex:
[7:13] I don't know. I mean, Berlin's pretty melting-pot-ty. I don't know. I mean, I moved to Germany, I knew what I was getting myself into - actually, I didn't know what I was getting myself into! - but after a bit, I learned what I'm doing here.
German Culture Is Super Goofy
[7:22] And I think it just makes every day an adventure, you know, like discovering Stefan Raab. That's super fun. That guy's amazing.
Manuel:
[7:29] So random!
Alex:
[7:32] He's a cultural icon. At least he is for me, as an American.
Manuel:
[7:36] Stefan Raab, it's a TV comedy. But it's so funny because I watched his show when I was like 14, and I didn't even know he was still active. Is he still doing stuff?
Alex:
[7:47] No, he's not. I watch like old episodes of Schlag den Raab. It's hilarious!
Manuel:
[7:51] You're like catching up on an American ... what it's like being a teenager in Germany, I feel like.
Alex:
[7:56] Yeah, exactly. So a lot of the things are old for you, you know, my girlfriend will show me, and it's old for her, but for me, it's brand new. And like no offense, but like German culture is super goofy, like y'all are really, really goofy!
Manuel:
[8:11] Tell us some more. I mean, how are we goofy?
Geoff:
[8:12] I mean, some weird traditions: I mean, you know, I'm married to a German, so, you know, when she was turning 30 and she was saying that she had to go clean some door knobs at the Bürgeramt or something for ... And I'm like: What? Like I've been here ... I feel like I've been here for so long, but there's always this new random tradition that I find out about, where I'm like: How am I just hearing about this now? That makes no sense!
Alex:
[8:36] Or like, you know, I grew up with like Sesame Street little puppets, and in Germany, their puppets are depressed pieces of bread, and that's also incredible .Bernd das Brot, he's amazing. So I'm discovering that as ... when I was like, you know, a 22-, 23-year-old kid and I was like: This is awesome, whatever this is, I'm so here for it!
Manuel:
[8:53] That's hilarious!
How Long Does It Take To Get Into German Culture?
Jae:
[8:54] So how long would you say it took you both both to get into the German culture, so to say, because I would say that I'm still teetering from still, I think, my American culture, and then the just expat culture, Berlin culture, and German culture. Like, yeah, how have you guys, yeah, got more introduced to that?
[8:54] So how long would you say it took you both both to get into the German culture, so to say, because I would say that I'm still teetering from still, I think, my American culture, and then the just expat culture, Berlin culture, and German culture. Like, yeah, how have you guys, yeah, got more introduced to that?
Geoff:
[9:20] Okay, can I ask you how long have you been in Berlin so far?
Jae:
[9:22] I came here last April, so about a year and four or five months now.
Alex:
[9:27] Okay.
Geoff:
[9:28] Okay. Okay. So fresh, but not.
Jae:
[9:29] Still fresh.
Geoff:
[9:30] Not super fresh. (Super fresh,) Yeah. I mean.
Alex:
[9:32] Tough question.
Geoff:
[9:33] It takes ... for me, it takes a few years. Cause it also like, it depends on your mindset, you know. When I moved here the first couple of years, I had no plans on staying here long-term, so for me, this was just kind of, you know, a fun cultural experience I was going to do for a little while and then go back to the US. So in that sense, with that mindset, you're not really diving too far in, you know what I mean? But then when that shifted and I kind of realized I'm going to stay longer, then your mindset shifts and then you, I think, dive more into the culture than you did before. And of course, people who live in Germany or Berlin for like three months, don't dive at all into the culture. They're just here drinking and partying, and they learn like three words of German and then go back home, you know?
Alex:
[10:16] For sure. No, I agree with that. And I think a lot of it is also the language. I think once I learned the language, then the culture opened up and then I could talk shit with the Späti guy, or, you know, give directions to people on the streets, or just ... I mean, culture and language are very closely connected, so I think once you get the language, the culture just kind of comes. I can watch TV now and some movies, and you'll get those little nuances that you're not going to get just by living here only speaking English, which you can do, but you're not going to get past that little immigrant expat bubble unless the language is learned, so to a decent level. It doesn't have to be fluent, but a certain level.
Geoff:
[10:56] You don't have to be fluent, even if you have enough to work. I mean, we've all ... I mean, and I'm sure you've only been here a year, you've had this happen all the time, you know, you're at a party or you're with a group of Germans, and it's a lot of awkwardly standing in the corner having no idea what ... and just hoping ...
Alex:
[11:11] I can see by your face right there, that you've been there.
Geoff:
[11:13] And just hoping you can throw yourself in. But even when you just know a little bit of German, just enough to hear a few words and enough to ask: Well, what did he mean by that? You know, just to ask little follow-up questions, you get a little bit more ... suddenly like a huge big piece of the puzzle comes in.
Alex:
[11:33] And then the Germans really appreciate it. It's like: Oh, he's trying, let me bring him in. And then, of course, they speak incredible English, probably better than my English, and then you're kind of like ... I think they bring you in more when they show, okay, this guy is ... that there's like dull American's actually giving effort to be part of this culture and the society. (Mmm.) (Yeah.)
Geoff:
[11:51] And on the other hand, if you don' t... I had so many times, I'm at a party or something and I'm being introduced, and, you know, in English, of course, and then the host of the party, the German, will ask: "So how long have you been in Berlin?" And I noticed like the higher that number was, the less respect he had for me, you know! (Expectations go up!) Yeah, exactly. If it was three months, he's like: Okay, that's fine, he'll speak in English. But if it's a year or two years, they give you this look like: Oh, and you still speak in English? Okay, interesting. Which I think that pushes you to want to work harder, (For sure.) because that's a rough look you get.
Alex:
[12:28] Disappointing Germans is a scary affair.
Manuel:
[12:32] That's a good name for a podcast: Disappointing Germans.
Jae:
[12:38] What is kind of pushing me more to learn, because I've had like experiences where I'm obviously the only English speaker, and what would typically happen either is, I'm just, I can't like ... oh, actually three ... there's three things that happen typically. The first thing that happens is everyone just speaks German and they just forget that I'm I'm there and I just stand smiling. The second option is they will like start from the beginning and they'll speak English to me, and then I feel bad because I'm like, Oh wait, like I'm the only English speaker, like y'all are only switching for me. (Yeah.) And then the third option that ends up happening is they'll start speaking German, and then in the middle of their conversation,they'll realize that I'm there, then they'll switch to English, but they won't catch me up on what the conversation was. So then I just have to like jump in. But like these together, yeah, like these moments were like I see there there there is this effort, it kind of ... it doesn't ... guilt is not the word that I would like to use, but I feel the appreciation, I feel the effort on their part. And I think: Okay, well, if they're going to meet me halfway, I mean, I think I can at least meet them the same, you know?
Alex:
[13:54] Yeah, that's super motivating: when you see a group of people that you don't know all speaking English because you're the only one there, like: "Well, what am I doing here? I'm in your country. Maybe I should get on this a little more.
Geoff:
[14:05] Yeah. But I know what you mean. You feel the love that five, 10 people have changed to their secondary language just for you, you know what I mean? (Yeah.) It's just super nice, super courteous of somebody to do, but yeah, the whole time you're like: Urgh, damn it! Like you don't like it. I mean, it's this thing where you're super happy because: Thank God I know what's happening now, but deep down you're like: Aah, but they're doing it just for me and this ...
Jae:
[14:32] Yeah, exactly.
Geoff:
[14:34] You're happy, you're involved, but you're not ...
Jae:
[14:36] I'm like: Damn, they only did it just for me. And sometimes the conversation doesn't even apply to me, so I'm just like: I was already not paying attention!
Geoff:
[14:43] But even though it doesn't apply, it just feels good to know what's happening. You know what I mean?
Jae:
[14:51] It does. (Yeah.) (Yes.)
Culture Shocks
Manuel:[14:54] So we spent a lot of time on this show talking about kind of Jae's initial shocks and culture shocks and things that surprised him and frustrated him. We actually started this podcast before he moved here, so we documented the whole process.
Alex:
[15:07] That's super cool.
Manuel:
[15:08] When you guys think back to when you first moved here 10 years ago, do you remember what your culture shocks were? And which of them carry on to this day? And maybe are there things that still bother you about Germany or things that you've really come to love, that are different?
Geoff:
[15:29] Oh, there's a lot! I mean, the one that stands out is - how do you say this in a nice way? - you'll encounter a lot of Germans that ... I mean, in general ... Okay, in general, Germans like their privacy, "don't bother me" kind of mentality, but if a German feels like you're doing something wrong, they have no problem going up to a complete stranger and telling you that you're breaking the rule, or that you're on the wrong side of the line, or ... like Germans love to tell you that you're doing something wrong. (Oh yeah.) And this, you encounter ... the first year I lived here and the 12th year I lived here, you see it all the time. Like the other day I was at a train station, there's this woman with her child, and a German from across the train tracks on the other side started yelling at her because: Oh, your child's too close to the edge of the tracks, even though they were like a meter away. But that's just a good example of Germans just love to get into other people's business when they feel like a rule is being broken.
Alex:
[16:29] I mean, yeah, I agree, but to be fair, after like 10 years now, I have like a - what is it? - like a Zebrastreifen - what's it called? - yeah, one of the crosswalks with the stripes though. So there's no light in front of my apartment, so I always just walk, I'm not looking both ways. This is my space to to walk, the car's got to, you know, slow down for me.
Geoff:
[16:51] And your kindergarten teacher: Look both ways!
Manuel:
[16:53] In Switzerland, you can pull that off. In Germany, in Berlin, I wouldn't be so confident.
Alex:
[16:56] But I'm, I'm doing ... I know the rules. And so when I see a car going through, it's their fault. So when I see a car go by me, you know, I'm always, I'm kind of getting a little German ... Germany. I'm yelling at the car. They can't hear me, but you know, I'm like: Hey, what are you doing over here? Hier ist Zebrastreifen! Or when people are like riding their bike on the sidewalk, you know, I'm getting a little mad now. I didn't care before, but now I care. It's clearly like my heart's turning a little Schwarz-Rot-Gelb, oh, Gold, sorry, Gold. (Got it.) I think a big one - I know, I think we've talked about a million times on our podcast - was just like the grocery store culture here. (Oh yeah.) And I feel like I could talk for three hours about the grocery store culture, because it is wildly, wildly different in terms of like discounters, expensive ones, the size of them, the choice they have, the weird meats they have, the speed that they make you go at. Now I'm all about it, I'm so into it now. I don't want to go to the States now and be chatting up at the grocery store. I'm like: No, no, [inaudible] suck, I got places to go ...
Jae:
[18:02] I don't want to talk to anyone. Come on, let's just go.
Alex:
[18:06] I don't want to talk about my Oreos. I want to move on with my life and get out of this place. 'Cause I hate the grocery store, I always hate shopping, so I want to get in and out as quick as possible. And Germany is like, I feel like they understand that no one wants to be here, we're here just to feed ourselves so we can survive, and let's get in and out, let's get quick. Unless I can't find something. If I can't find something, I still kind of, I still get frustrated that I feel like if I ask for help, I'm the ... I don't know if you guys allow swearing in your podcast? But I'm the asshole when I ask for help as the customer.
Geoff:
[18:34] Cause you're slowing down the line, yeah.
Alex:
[18:35] Or like even someone, you know, that they're stocking shelves, and I'm like, [whispering:]Hi, Enschuldigung. Entshuldigung, hast du peanut butter? And then they're like:Ja, irgendwo da, it's over there somewhere. Like, Cool, thanks, thanks.
Manuel:
[18:46] Aisle 26, probably. Good luck!
Alex:
[18:49] Yeah, I'll just go fuck myself over here, thanks!
Manuel:
[18:53] But I mean, it's very privileged, of course, but I transitioned completely to just ordering groceries online. (Oh, yeah, that's very nice.) It's the best of all the worlds. Someone comes, gives you your stuff, and skedaddles.
Jae:
[19:05] That's great!
Alex:
[19:07] But you don't get the experience of Frau Netto, you know!
NFL & European League of Football
Jae:[19:15] Is there anything ... so we talked about trying to adapt to the German culture, but is there anything still American that you still do? And something that you're kind of proud that you still do?
Geoff:
[19:27] I mean, there absolutely is. I can't think of one at the top of my head.
Alex:
[19:32] I'm very unapologetically ... like I like Fußball, it's cool, it's fun, but I'm still a very hard NFL fan, (Okay, yeah.) and everyone knows that about me. There are a lot of Germans who do get annoyed by it, but hey man, it's the best sport in the world, so I'm not going to, you know ...
Manuel:
[19:48] How does that work? Do you stream it over the internet?
Alex:
[19:52] Yeah, with NFL Game Pass. I haven't missed a Patriots game in like 15 years.
Jae:
[19:58] I'm not a Patriots fan. (Oh yeah.)
Alex:
[20:01] What are you?
Jae:
[20:02] I'm from Texas, so there's only two teams I can really root for.
Alex:
[20:04] It's not the Cowboys, is it?
Jae:
[20:06] No.
Alex:
[20:07] The Texans?
Jae:
[20:09] Yeah. I mean, the Cowboys technically do better than the Texans.
Alex:
[20:12] Yeah, but the Texans are a little more sympathisch, you know. Check out the ELF, the European League of Football. I have season tickets with Berlin Thunder.
Jae:
[20:23] European League?
Alex:
[20:25] Yeah, ELF, European League of Football. Berlin has a team they play on Mauerpark, and I have season tickets. Yeah, it's really fun. (Oh.) (Hah!)
Tips for Newcomers
Manuel:
[20:36] Well, speaking of practical tips, what tips do you have for anyone, especially Americans, but maybe Canadians and or other people moving to Berlin, like what are your top tips of things that you should think of when you come here?
[20:36] Well, speaking of practical tips, what tips do you have for anyone, especially Americans, but maybe Canadians and or other people moving to Berlin, like what are your top tips of things that you should think of when you come here?
Alex:
[20:51] I think our number one, we always say is if you're moving - especially if you're younger, like in your 20s, early 30s, whatever - if you're going to move here and you don't really know anyone, get a flat share, get a WG, meet some people, learn what it's like to live in a city where someone has been there. So I think if you get your own apartment, one, it's going to be near impossible, but if you do, I think it can be very lonely, and Berlin can be unforgiving, I think, especially in the first year or so. It's really hard to meet people, to integrate, and I think if you have a WG or a flat share, at least it gives you one step in the door of meeting their friends or them helping you around the streets, around the area or whatever, I think that's the number one thing I would say is don't get an apartment by yourself. Live with someone. Even if you're not that type of person, it's super helpful.
Geoff:
[21:40] Absolutely, yeah. And what goes along with that also is: force yourself to get out there and out of your comfort zone. Because I know what a lot of people do is they move abroad, and of course you don't know the language, you don't know anybody, it's easy to kind of go into a small depression and lock yourself away in your room. Whereas really ought to, especially in those first few weeks, go to meetup.com and go to a meetup or go on a Facebook group and ... you know, I did it a few times. Just: Hey, does anybody want to go play ping pong outside? And you just meet up with some random people and like really force yourself to get out there, because the longer you go without any kind of a support group, like friends, all you're going to be doing is just thinking about what you've left behind back at home. And I've seen it a million times people, after four or five months, they move back, because they could just get so lonely and depressed because they're in this like limbo state where they left their lives at home, but they haven't started to create a new one here, you know what I mean? So I just think ...
Alex:
[22:37] I've had so many friends in my first few years here that all of them are now gone, because Berlin is a place people do come and go, unfortunately. That's not really a tip, It's just something I'm saying.
Geoff:
[22:48] Yeah, I know, but it's a thing, yeah.
Learning German
Alex:[22:51] I also think another one is: learn German as soon as you can. If you want to move next year, learn German now, so when you come here a year from now, you're at least like an A2/B1 level. Because like I said before, learning the language opens up just so many more opportunities and meeting people. And Jae, how's your German by the way? I see you look ... As I'm saying this, I see you kind of moving away. Your body language is getting a little uncomfortable!
Jae:
[23:20] Meine Deutsch ist nicht gut. We're still learning. (That's good!)
Geoff:
[23:23] But that's okay.
Jae:
[23:24] That's my phrase! (That's okay.) I'm still learning!
Geoff:
[23:26] It's good. It's good. It is so easy to tell somebody: Learn German, because learning any language is frickin' difficult.
Alex:
[23:32] It's hard.
Geoff:
[23:33] It takes ... it takes, it's not a one-day-a-month thing that you sit down and study some flashcards and suddenly ... You know, like it's a continual process, and it took me years to get where I am. It wasn't just taking a few courses and then: Oh, I'm there, you know. It was like...
Alex:
[23:50] I didn't pass my B2 test until, I think, my seventh or eighth year here, so I was really slow. So don't feel bad if it's going slow. Learning a language is hard. And I'm still not great.
Manuel:
[24:01] Berlin is kind of the worst city, you know, to try and learn German.
Alex:
[24:05] Yeah, absolutely. I think if we moved to like Munich, like Frankfurt, or something like that, our German would be great in like six months.
Manuel:
[24:12] Or just a village, you know.
Geoff:
[24:13] Yeah, if you move somewhere where they don't speak any English, you will learn German in a hot minute, man. (Yeah.) Because you can't talk to anybody.
Alex:
[24:19] But every time here you speak German, all the Germans respond to you in English because they want to practice their English. I'm trying to practice my German and no one's learning anything.
Manuel:
[24:27] Yeah, or even just because we're not very patient. You know, even with our company, for example, you know, we're a mix of different nationalities, and even though almost everybody essentially understands German and speaks very well, we often just default to English because it's just quicker, faster, easier. We don't even think about it. And yeah, I think it's a big challenge.
Jae:
[24:53] I think something else that helps, is also figuring out your door into learning German, like figuring out what inspires you or what kicks you, like whether this is a relationship, whether this is a person. For me, actually, I realized that music is my ... I actually found a few artists that I liked that are German artists, (Yeah, that's actually very good.) to actually know their songs, you know. And that is like: Okay, now I'm more inspired.
Alex:
[25:24] For sure, because then you also want to understand that music you're listening to. For me, a lot of like Peter Fox, like Marteria, a lot of German hip-hop, helped me out a lot. Because German hip-hop is really good, but I didn't know what they were saying, and then once your German gets better, you're like: Oh, wow, I'm getting this song now. And the song has a whole new meaning because it has that kind of emotional space where you don't understand what they're saying, but now it's more of like the analytical space, you know what they're saying now and that song has a whole new meaning, which I think is really cool.
Manuel:
[25:50] It's funny, this is the exact experience that I had when I was 17 and I spent a year as an exchange student in California. I came there obviously with good English. At that point I had English classes for six years or something, so it's not like I was new to the language, but I remember like four, five, six months into my year there, I was listening to Eminem, and all of a sudden I realized that I understood all the words. That's like even when he was singing very fast. Before that just sounded like gibberish, like it's too fast for me to grasp and many words I just don't know, and then at some point in that year, I was just like: Holy shit, I can listen and I understand what he's saying! And it's such a cool experience when you listen to a song.
Alex:
[26:37] It's a great way to like learn also, like slang and colloquialism as well, because obviously you're not going to learn, like Hochenglisch listening to Eminem, but you'll learn things that people might say on, you know, on a random conversation. (Yeah.) (Yeah.)
Jae:
[26:50] Yes. Totally. (Yes.)
Visiting Home
Alex:[26:59] Yeah, it's complicated. I try to go at least once every like year and a half.
Geoff:
[27:04] A year and a half? That seems like a weird ...
Alex:
[27:07] Well, because I don't go yearly, I don't go every two years, so it kind of like averaged out to like a year and a half, I guess.
Geoff:
[27:11] Oh, okay. (Yeah.) I go once a year. I go every year for Christmas. So that's my, my one time ... I mean, you know, if there's a wedding or something ... but you know, it's not the ... I mean, I'm from California, so it's 15 hours flights, you know. You've got two hours to London and then another 12 hours in the ... waiting, so it's a long flight, but also it's not cheap. So if I could afford it, I would think I would go more often. I've always said, I would love if California bordered Germany, and my life would be so much easier.
Jae:
[27:47] I mean, yeah!
Alex:
[27:49] I think it's also like, I have 30 vacation days and I want to use a lot of them to vacation and explore and travel, and if I'm using half of those to go to the States every year, which sounds really shitty to my mom and dad, which I feel bad about ...
Geoff:
[28:03] Yeah, to your mom that's listening right now, er ... !
Alex:
[28:04] But I want to travel! I mean, you're up for a reason, you know?
Jae:
[28:07] I agree. I'm like, I only have so much money and so much time. And also, for me, I do want to go back to the States, but to be fair, and I love my family, I don't want to go back to Texas. I still have ... I've never been to New York. I went to school in LA, so I want to go visit my friends back there, I want to do a lot of different things, so it's like, if I have this time in America, I don't know if I'll go back home.
Alex:
[28:32] And that's the thing, I'm from Rhode Island. I've seen New England, Miami, and LA once, but I didn't travel before I moved here, so when I go to the States, I'm like: I want to see New Orleans, I want to go to ... I want to see all those cool places, but I can't. I have to go to Rhode Island, I have to see my family. I have to. I come from a really small Jewish family, so like I have to hang out with my family.
Jae:
[28:52] Yes.
American Friends in Berlin
Manuel:[28:53] And I remember, I hope it's okay, I'm sharing this, but you had a Thanksgiving party here (Yeah.) with a bunch of Americans. Do you guys do that? (Yes.) (Yeah.) Do you have like an American clique of friends here?
Alex:
[29:04] I wouldn't say it's like specifically an American clique of friends, but we have ... I mean, we live like ... I have like three of ... How many American friends? I think three or four American friends?
Geoff:
[29:13] I don't know that many Americans, to be honest. (Me neither.) But like we have a group of friends, you know, with people from Turkey, people from Germany, from the States, so it's not necessarily Americans, but usually at least one of us will host a Thanksgiving thing every year. Because also they find it exciting because they've never been to an American Thanksgiving, you know. They've never had a full-on turkey or mashed potatoes or all that kind of stuff, so ... (Exactly.)
Alex:
[29:39] But my tradition is, because it's hard to find a turkey here and I can't cook - because on a Thursday I've got to work - is I always go to the döner place and get a bunch of Hähnchen on the Spieß. So I get like seven or eight Hähnchen, and that's our turkey for the day. So everyone brings their side dishes and I just get a bunch of chickens from the döner lot.
Jae:
[29:59] Love it. (And they're so good!)
Interacting With Other Americans
[30:02] That leads me to my next question is: how do you interact with other Americans? Because as you say, I only have like two American friends, and whenever ... I went to this club once and I saw two Americans and I was like, "Oh my gosh, we're American! They were like, "Shh! Don't say that so loud! I'm like, "Oh, sorry!" (That's amazing.) And I'll never forget that. It's like, every time I see those Americans, they kind of just like turn their head away from me.Geoff:
[30:27] Yeah, I kind of had a thing when I first got here were. I think subconsciously I was avoiding other Americans because I didn't want to be one of those people that moves abroad and then just befriends a bunch of people he could have met back home. And so I didn't want that to happen. So I was kind of not actively, but I think looking back on it, kind of subconsciously was like staying away unless a person I really had a really big connection with them, and then I would. Because I didn't want to be that person that moves abroad and then just hangs out with a bunch of Americans. But now I don't care. If you're a cool person. I don't care where you're from. (Yeah.)
Alex:
[31:04] For me, it's kind of twofold. So one, if I'm an American, I'm like: Okay, cool.,Yyu're American and we'll have everything in common. If yeah, then we'll talk about that, whatever. But then there are other times where, you know, I'm at like a restaurant or a bar and I hear like some Americans and I'm like: Aargh, they're so loud!
Jae:
[31:19] Yes. So loud!
Alex:
[31:22] These Americans over here, they're so obnoxious!
Jae:
[31:24] I'm like: Aargh!
Alex:
[31:26] Sitting in my ivory tower. I'm becoming such like a ... I don't know, it's kind of a dickhead move, but I don't know why, it's maybe because I'm trying to be like, trying to be more, you know, European and you know, try to play ...
Manuel:
[31:39] Yeah, but it's so different when you've lived in a place for a long time and then you see tourists from your own ... I've had that same experience living in different places in Poland and Mexico. When you see tourists, you feel so ... like we even have a word for that, Fremdschämen, when you're embarrassed on behalf of other people. Like I think that's a very common experience, because you live here, you know how to adjust and be, but these tourists are still themselves.
Alex:
[32:07] Yes. But even now when I'm traveling outside of Germany and I see German tourists, I'm like: Aargh, you're like, oh, my ... (You're getting the best of both worlds.) I know. So I'm like: I'm not American. Oh, I'm not German ...
Anti-Americanism
Manuel:
[32:22] And I'm curious, you've lived here through kind of the Obama years the Trump years, know, the Biden years, and there's always this, this talk of like anti-Americanism in Germany. I mean, maybe in Berlin it's not such a topic, but I wonder, like have you felt that the perception of America and Americans has changed through these years?
[32:22] And I'm curious, you've lived here through kind of the Obama years the Trump years, know, the Biden years, and there's always this, this talk of like anti-Americanism in Germany. I mean, maybe in Berlin it's not such a topic, but I wonder, like have you felt that the perception of America and Americans has changed through these years?
Geoff:
[32:43] I mean, I hope so. You mean for the better or for the worse? I hope so, for the better. I mean, I think it was definitely worse the first few years I lived here and the first few years I was traveling here. I mean, I've heard it. These are are real things that were said to me. I've had people say, "Oh, you're smart for an American," or you're this or that. And it's like this backwards compliment where you're like: Hmm, thanks, but yeah ... I think it used to be worse, but, yeah, I think during the Obama years it got better because they're like: Oh, okay. You're not!
Alex:
[33:22] Yeah. For me, I don't know. Like for me, it was more during like the 2016, 2017, every conversation, "Oh, you're American? Oh, what about that Trump guy?" I'm like: Yeah, okay, do we have to do this every single time? Obviously, I'm living in Europe. I'm not a Trump guy. Why would I be? That's a ridiculous question. But they still want to ask you that. And I get the interest because it is, from my sociological standpoint, incredible that that even happened, you know what I mean? So from a general interest standpoint, I'm open to questions. But if it comes just like, "Horde, you guys are idiots." I know, we're idiots. Can we just move on from this and let's talk about ... actually like I mean, I think it's when people talk about like the politics is kind of annoying, but every time I talk to Europeans, it was like: Americans are always super nice and super friendly and super open. So I think there's always that sentiment there, which I really, really do like, because I think, I think you can get jaded living in Europe for a while and thinking: Yeah, Americans are obnoxious. But then you do remember like: Wait, actually a lot of Americans are really nice (Decent. good people.) and open, yeah, decent. It's just our politics are just wacko, you know, reality-TV-show stuff.
Geoff:
[34:29] But I got a lot of people also asking if I'm a cowboy. (That's cool!) I hear that a lot, just because you say you're American, and they're like, "Oh, you're a cowboy?" It's like, "No, sorry, I have never ridden a horse."
Jae:
[34:37] Imagine being from Texas! (Oh, yeah!)
Geoff:
[34:39] I mean, it's true!
Jae:
[34:40] A hundred percent, people are asking you that.
Alex:
[34:43] Well, at least you're recognizable: Texas, California. When I say I'm from Rhode Island, it's always like, "Oh, Long Island, New York!" No, it's not! Definitely not New York! Always at least a three to four minute conversation about where I'm from, so that's always fun.
Geoff:
[34:56] Until they lose interest, and they're like: Okay, whatever.
Alex:
[34:59] Until they lose interest, but I'm very, you know: I'm not from New York, and stop saying that. I'd rather just say Boston. Boston's better. (It's so funny.)
Being an Exchange Student in the US
Manuel:
[35:07] It's so funny to me, because you're making many of the same experiences that I had as an exchange student in the US, where, you know, it's always kind of the same questions over and over.
Geoff:
[35:17] I can't even imagine. What did you get asked?
Manuel:
[35:18] Well, one of the main things ... I mean, there was a high school year, obviously, so there was a lot of like high school topics, but the big one was that ... I mean, I was there when I was 17 and at that point. I could legally drink beer in Germany, but not in the US, of course. That just blew people's minds. And they're like, "So the soda machines in your high school, do they have beer?" No, they don't. But actually, it's not that stupid of a question, because we did have beer with our teachers when we went on like a skiing trip, so it's not like ... I mean, there was some alcohol in the broader context of school, but not like during class.
Alex:
[35:59] I was a 17-year-old in high school. That is absolutely ... I remember we had a German exchange student and my buddy had one. And the first thing I was asked was the same exact thing, "You're 17, you're in high school, can you drink legally? This is so important to me! I need to know!"
Geoff:
[36:12] But didn't that bother you though? Because you get used to that culture, then you're in the US and you can't really party. You can't really go to bars. (Oh, I partied!) Oh, no, no, no, but you can't just do it openly.
Alex:
[36:23] Yeah, but you get to experience that American Pie style party. The house party, you know?
Manuel:
[36:26] Totally. No, and everything ... I mean, that whole year in the States was just such ... It was like a movie, honestly, and it's ... I went to the US because I had read a book that was literally called, A High School year in the US, or something like that. It was literally just someone who had written down all their experiences, like wrote down about kind of, I don't know ... what's that class that they have where they're basically practicing for the military? I forgot the name.
Jae:
[36:59] Oh, ROTC.
Manuel:
[37:02] Yeah, that. And that was just like: What! They have like a military thing in high school?
Alex:
[37:06] I did not know that until just this moment, that's brand new to me. I went to a Quaker school, so we were very anti-war-military.
Manuel:
[37:14] No, even in California they had that, and they were like waving around these essentially wooden fake guns, but they were like practicing swirling them around. And I read that book and I was like: I have to go see this for myself. I was just like ... I was like: This sounds so incredible. I want to go and see it!
Alex:
[37:31] I'm interested now!
Manuel:
[37:32] But also because as you mentioned, we're raised on American movies and everything and it's just like, I want to .. like, it felt magical in a way. And so, yeah, I really wanted to experience it. And I was very closed-minded to going to other countries. Like normally the idea with a good exchange program like I did, I did not get to pick a country, I got to list like five countries in the order of importance, and then they would assign me wherever. But I was like: I'm going to the US or I'm not going! I really wanted that specific experience.
Alex:
[38:08] It's great you got California because I met a few people who did an exchange. They wanted to go to the States, they went to like North Dakota.
Jae:
[38:14] Or Connecticut! (Well, Connecticut.)
Manuel:
[38:16] But also, it can be such a great experience still. It's just because it's so otherworldly, right? It's so different. Especially at that time, there was no Facebook yet. I basically cut off contact with Germany for the entire year (Oh, true, yeah.) completely. And my host family was very religious and Christian, and it was just a completely different world and I loved every part of it. I was just like: Okay, this is a mega church. Crazy! Never seen that before! Just like all these things ...
Alex:
[38:48] Were you excited about having a locker? 'Cause I heard a lot of Germans were like, "I had a locker like in the movies!"
Manuel:
[38:54] I didn't have a locker. How did I know ... There were lockers, and I do remember them because someone gave me like a love note there at once. (Ahhh!) That was very cute, but I did not have a locker myself. I don't know, I don't think we had enough for everybody. It was a giant ... The school had like 4,000 students and they were like five principals and they were driving around in golf cars.
Geoff:
[39:16] Which city were you in?
Manuel:
[39:17] Everything was so different!
Jae:
[39:19] Yeah, what city?
Manuel:
[39:20] Salinas, California. Lots of gangs.
Geoff:
[39:22] Salinas, of course! Yeah, yeah. That's not far from where I was. I was in Santa Cruz. So, you know. (Yeah, yeah.) 40 minutes away, probably.
Alex:
[39:29] You big state people, totally different world, man! (This is all new to me, too!)
Geoff:
[39:32] But that's like ... where I was, my high school, there was 200 kids in my class, so like not 4,000. So these kind of big like LA schools, I don't know how that goes, yeah.
Manuel:
[39:45] Wild!
Alex:
[39:46] Yeah. There'd be like 95 kids in my class.
Geoff:
[39:48] Okay, even smaller.
Jae:
[39:49] Oh, yeah. (Oh, nice. Wow!)
Manuel:
[39:50] Wow! (Yeah.) (Small state.)
The End of the Podcast & the Beginning of the YouTube Channel
Manuel:
[39:52] Anyway, we're running out of time. I want to hear a little bit about kind of your journey with the podcast, and now YouTube. You did a podcast for three years and I think you had quite the following and a big fan base. And I heard in your final episode that it just felt like it's the right time to kind of do something new, but you're not stopping this beat, right? You want to continue to talk about... (We can't stop the train.) (You can't stop the train.)
[39:52] Anyway, we're running out of time. I want to hear a little bit about kind of your journey with the podcast, and now YouTube. You did a podcast for three years and I think you had quite the following and a big fan base. And I heard in your final episode that it just felt like it's the right time to kind of do something new, but you're not stopping this beat, right? You want to continue to talk about... (We can't stop the train.) (You can't stop the train.)
Alex:
[40:22] We're like the Ring Band, man, we keep going!
Manuel:
[40:26] But the funny thing ... Like, so my question is, to me, because I also do a podcast or several podcasts and YouTube, and YouTube just seems like it's a lot more work than doing a podcast, so when someone like is burnt out, they usually don't go to YouTube afterwards.
Alex:
[40:43] So it's kind of a weird thing. I think the work is more but the content work is way easier. Doing a 10 to 15 minute video versus an hour long podcast is easier in terms of like, we, you know, do be very ... scrape the surface, say little things like this, but what I missed about the podcast was being able to really deep dive and just kind of bullshit back and forth with each other for however long we want to. We're trying to keep the YouTube videos like 10, 15 minutes at most, because we'd also don't want to have a podcast on YouTube because we did that before. And it wasn't ... I don't think it was much as a burnout, I think it was just after 142 episodes (147.) 147 episodes, thank you, there's only so much more we could talk about that we were excited to talk about. And we said we were always going to stop when we weren't having fun anymore. And I think it got to the point where we sat down: All right, what are we going to record for our next six, seven episodes? And we're just getting frustrated and it's like: I don't know. I don't know. I have no idea anymore, it's getting, you know ... We can do another German shuffle, you know, but those deep dives that we did earlier were just kind of gone and it just wasn't ,.. the magic, that spark just wasn't there, I guess.
Geoff:
[41:57] Yeah. Like the fun... I would until the day I die and meet up every Wednesday with Alex (Yeah.) and talk crap about whatever, because every Wednesday we still had an amazing time just shooting the shit. But yeah, it was just thinking of the content. I mean, I'll be honest, after 10 episodes ...
Alex:
[42:12] We thought we were done.
Geoff:
[42:14] We turned to ourselves, we're like: We've done it all, right? What else can we talk about? And then after 50 episodes, it was like every 10 episodes we had the same conversation. Like, there's no more, right? Because in the beginning, it's easier to see these broad strokes, okay? Whole episode about German food, about this, about that. But then you do all the broad strokes, okay, now we gotta get more specific, more specific. And then, yeah, the more work it took for us to come up with topics and ideas, the more work in general this became for us. And for us, again ... it was a nonprofit podcast the entire time. something we did in our spare time, so the more ... so we always said the fun-to-work ratio had to be a certain way. And once it started tipping the other way, we realized: Maybe we've kind of done everything that we can.
Alex:
[43:01] Exactly. And we got to the point where we weren't … Before, we didn't really script much at all. We'd have bullet points and just talk about that.
Geoff:
[43:08] But we never scripted anything.
Alex:
[43:09] We never scripted anything. And then we got to the point where we said: Let's just talk about this topic and just like freeball it and see what happens. And we had a lot of fun doing that, so cool, that was kind of our new thing. Let's just pick one random thing, kind of see where it's going to take us. So that was pretty fun for a bit. But then even coming up with the idea of just one thing to talk about was getting difficult. But we said, we still want to keep making content. We enjoy the content. We enjoy doing things like this right now, like this interview (Yeah.) or this conversation - it's not even an interview, it's a conversation. And we've met amazing people from all around the world in these past three years, which we had no idea we would do, that was not even on the horizons at all. So we're like: We have to keep this going. We're super enjoying it, but let's try to shift it a bit and start something new and fresh. And we thought: Let's try YouTube, you know? And we can do the kind of similar topics that we talked about before, but a little smaller and more like bite-sized pieces, but on video, which of course is a totally different game, you know, with lights and a set and like ... That was fun, but ...
Geoff:
[44:10] It is a lot more work (It's a lot of work.) in terms of production (Yeah.) but like, again, it was something new. It was a new creative challenge, you know, not just audio. It was like: Now, okay, like, yeah, like what does a video from us feel like? What should it look like? And that was fun for us for a new challenge. And as terms of topics, it was a lot easier, so ... but so we could focus more on the creative side of things.
Alex:
[44:34] Right. And then trying to keep that kind of like podcast vibe that we had on YouTube. There's a lot of feedback we got. People said, "I feel like I'm hanging out you at a bar." It's like,: Great, let's make a set that looks like a bar and let's try to keep that conversational aspect going. But now we have a camera there, where that camera could be the third person that we're hanging out with. So that was kind of the idea behind it, whether it translates or not, I have no idea. It's still very new, and still a bit awkward being in front of the camera and trying to shut ourselves up so we're not talking for an hour like we're used to. So it's a learning experience, but it's fun, It's new again, and I'm enjoying it. But I got to say right right now with the headphones back on, my podcast mic, (Feels good.) yeah, it feels good. I feel like I'm cozy at home right now, you know? I'm under my blanket of coziness.
Manuel:
[45:19] Yeah, I feel like you should keep the feed alive and just whenever you feel like: Hah, this topic deserves an hour long conversation, you know? (That's the plan.) We'll all stay subscribed, you know? (Thank you.) That's the good thing about podcasts, like you're not relying on the algorithm reminding you. (Yeah.) We'll just be subscribed and if there's a new episode, we'll see it.
Alex:
[45:38] That's the thing, we'll keep it alive. If there's ever, you know, like you said, Is there any moment where you say: You know what, let's put those headphones back on and record something, then we'll do it again. We're not dead and done forever. It's just, we're trying something new and...
Geoff:
[45:52] Shifted the focus.
Alex:
[45:53] Hopefully it works. Hopefully people like it and enjoy it. And if not, we're still having fun doing it. So we might as well keep doing it anyway.
Geoff:
[45:58] It's still early days. So yeah, we're still figuring out the videos and how we want them to be, but we're having fun doing it.
Alex:
[46:04] It's fun. Yeah. It is a good time. But like I said, the podcast is like the home base.
Geoff:
[46:08] It's the warm blanket. I don't know, because when we record a podcast, we're in my bedroom, the lights are turned ... It's kind of romantic.
Alex:
[46:15] It's getting a little sexy! (Yeah!)
Geoff:
[46:17] It's like romantic lighting. And it's just us.
Alex:
[46:19] Now you have these big lights everywhere, and it's a lot, you know?
Geoff:
[46:22] Yeah. And even just being in front of it, we're these classic people that you put a camera in front of us, and we're like, "What should we do with our arms? Is this how I stand normally? Is this normal?" Really, the first few episodes, we were awkward freaks (Oh, man!) and it took us time to: Okay, just calm down, just be yourself.
Alex:
[46:37] We were the same with the podcast. Our first two podcast episodes were, in my opinion, just trash. (Yeah.) And then we grew with it, so hopefully we'll continue growing. and ... It's really fun making content, making content's fun, you know, at the end of the day, it's just, it's a good time. You guys know, you've been doing ... you know, you're doing it, and it's a good time.
Jae:
[46:55] And I do like this setup too. Like I think I get the perspective and sitting at the bar with y'all and yeah, I love it. I think it's very cool.
Alex:
[47:06] Oh, thanks so much. This guy's the wonderworker here. He did everything.
Jae:
[47:08] Oh, for people listening ...
Manuel:
[47:12] Check out the YouTube channel! (Yeah!) Jeff and Alex, Americans in Germany Drinking Whiskey. We'll put all the links in the show notes. It's agdw ... (Americans in Germany Drinking Whiskey) agdwchannel.com, but we'll put all of that in the show notes. (Thank you.) Thank you so much for coming. We should hang out in an actual bar at some point. (I'm totally for that.)
Geoff:
[47:34] Yeah, hit us up.
Alex:
[47:35] Let's hang out. You guys are pretty cool dudes. Yeah.
Geoff:
[47:37] Thanks so much.
Manuel:
[47:38] Thanks for joining us. (Thanks so much for inviting us.)
Jae:
[47:40] Yeah.
Alex:
[47:41] Yeah, Thanks a lot. This was super fun. Like I said, doing the podcasting again right now is ... I missed, I missed it. It was nice. Call us anytime you want. Feels good, feels good, yeah.