Show Notes
Transcript
Manuel:
[0:09] We're down one American. Unfortunately, Jae can't be here today as he's sick, as everybody is getting sick right now because it's not quite the winter, it's autumn in Berlin. ['Tis the season!] 'Tis the season to get a cold. But you both are making up for it, hopefully. Two Americans!
Loni:
[0:31] Double the trouble!
Manuel:
[0:32] Double the trouble, live in the studio. Loni and Sean, whereabouts are you from, in America?
Loni:
[0:41] We are from North Carolina on the East Coast.
Manuel:
[0:45] North Carolina, and you are a couple.
Sean:
[0:48] We are a couple.
Manuel:
[0:49] And not one of those couples where one is German and one's American and that's why they came here. [Exactly, yeah.] You are both from the States, and until recently that's where you lived.
Loni:
[1:02] Yes.
Manuel:
[1:03] And then for some reason you said: Hey, let's move to Berlin!
Why Move to Berlin?
Loni:
[1:09] Yeah, pretty much. It was extremely spontaneous. And for the most part, when people meet us, I clearly don't look German. So a lot of people ask, "Well, is your husband German? Like, why did you move?" And I'm like, "No, we're definitely both born and raised North Carolina." But that question of why Berlin, we get it all the time. Essentially, we came in 2021 on a summer tour, and I have a friend who is studying university here. And when I told her we were coming to Europe, she graciously opened up her home to us, said, "I'm not going to be there, but please just stay in my flat, like enjoy the city." And it was summer. So we were catfished. Berlin is just so glorious in the summer. And we were here for five days. And I remember being on a train to Switzerland and looking up the immigration laws, like it was that immediate that we were like: We can definitely move here!
Sean:
[2:05] One evening on the U-Bahn, we were like: Wow, this is just such a cozy city!
Manuel:
[2:08] On the U-Bahn! It's literally the ugliest place!
Loni:
[2:12] I loved it!
Manuel:
[2:15] Kind of similar to Jae's story. I remember in Episode 1, he's like, "Yeah, I came to Berlin for a few days and fell in love with the city and then said: Okay, I need to move here." So you made up your mind to just pack up and move here. And the reason I invited you on the show is because you shared your preparation, your planning, which is very German. It's incredibly detailed. So how much time between the decision of moving here and actually moving here?
Loni:
[2:52] Seven months.
Sean:
[2:53] Yeah, after visiting Berlin last summer, it was six months later, six or seven months later.
Loni:
[2:59] Seven months, yeah.
Manuel:
[3:01] And what was your life in the US at that point? Like, what were your jobs?
Loni:
[3:08] Yeah, so we were newlyweds when we came. We got married November of 2021. So prior to marriage, I changed my job just so I could be a little bit closer to our new home. Sean was working in the town we were living in, or close to the town we were living in. It's called Greenville.
Sean:
[3:28] Yes, and I'm a barber by trade. So I've been doing that for six years.
Loni:
[3:33] Yeah. So, and I was also working at a cafe. So by no means tech degree, by no means are we software engineers. We were just two kids saving up money and going on trips. Literally.
Sean:
[3:45] Just living the layperson life.
Loni:
[3:47] Yeah.
Manuel:
[3:47] Yeah.
Loni:
[3:48] Very blue collar.
Manuel:
[3:49] Great episode title: Just Two Kids! Okay.
Loni:
[3:52] Just two kids living life.
Manuel:
[3:54] Okay, and so then you made this decision: Hey, Berlin in the summer is it, that's where we want to be. And I'm pulling up the document that you shared in your first or second email that you sent, it's the 2023 Berlin Move Plan. And it's chronologically sorted, starting with. before travel, three months prior. So basically, the idea for this episode is that you're going to walk us through kind of ... Obviously you're here now, [Yeah] you've managed. [We did it.] You've done it, you're here, and we're going to go through kind of the whole process.
Before Travel
[4:33] So what were the things that you did before?Loni:
[4:38] Okay, so I mean immediately, summer 2021 on the train, I'm reading the full legal text of immigration law, which category we'd fall under. I think it was either like section 18 or 19, residence visa for employment. I even messaged - like this is crazy, all the things I did on that one train ride - I messaged a hotline of like: Make It In Berlin or Make It In Germany. I messaged them as my husband! I was like: Hey, I'm a barber and I have this licensing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Am I able … [Wait, you pretended to be your husband?] No.
Manuel:
[5:15] Why would you say like: I'm asking ... ?
Loni:
[5:18] I don't know! Because I was like, I can't be, I'm like …
Manuel:
[5:19] That's hilarious!
Loni:
[5:23] Discredit that. We are one, okay? Okay. We are one. So Sean and Loni Downey want to know, if I am a barber with these qualifications, yada, yada. Could I get a visa? And, I think, two or three days later, the hotline replied and they're like: Yeah, you could get a visa.
Manuel:
[5:42] What hotline is this? This is the first time I've ever heard of this hotline.
Loni:
[5:45] It is a full portal and literally the title is: Make It In Germany, and they are there to help you with whatever you need. I even messaged them later. I was like: Well, if I work in the gastro industry, can I get a visa as well? And they were so helpful. It's not the easiest, because so many European Union people could do that. But I think because ...
Sean:
[6:09] It's just specialized enough. There's a bit of a chink there.
Loni:
[6:12] Yeah.
Sean:
[6:13] You know, it's still menial, but not every other EU citizen can do it.
Loni:
[6:18] Yeah. It falls under the Trade and Skilled Worker category to being a barber because he had a certification for it. Did you find them: Make It In Germany?
Manuel:
[6:26] Is this like a government thing? [It's a government thing.] Bundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz.
Sean:
[6:32] Isn't that sweet of the German government?
Manuel:
[6:36] It's the Ministry for Economics and Climate.
Loni:
[6:40] Literally. They need workers, and that's kind of the revelation that I had in that moment. Like Sean has a skill and we can bring it here in Germany and be useful to the government. Which also, I did a lot of research on the labor shortage and how there's so many elderly ones that are, you know, getting into their pension, and they need people to essentially prop it up. They need workers. So.
Manuel:
[7:04] When you said a hotline, I imagined it being some ... not quite scam, but essentially someone who's making a quick buck by telling helpless Americans, you know: You do need a visa for this. But this is like a legit official government-sponsored: Hey, if you want to come to Germany, we want to help you. So that's good to know. Because it's true, we do very much need immigration, because we're not making any kids in this country. [Absolutely.] And so ...
Sean:
[7:33] There's another hotline for that!
Loni:
[7:36] If I need help making kids!
Manuel:
[7:38] Okay. So you called the hotline and they .... But I do want to understand what visa did you end up applying for? Because my understanding was always that it's easy to get a visa, or possible, if it's a highly specialized job, but barbers, like no offense, but barbers and waiters or people in the gastro ... What's the word that we both can't think of? [I think it's Gastronomy?] Gastronomy?
Sean:
[8:11] Or gastronomer!
Loni:
[8:12] I wanted to say like, gastronomist, or something. I was like: That's not right!
Type of Visa
Manuel:[8:15] So what's the visa that you ended up getting?
Sean:
[8:19] I think it's called a Skilled Workers Visa, I believe is the terminology. [Yeah.]
Manuel:
[8:24] And how did that work?
Loni:
[8:26] Oh man, that was pretty smooth, honestly, like in hindsight it was an extremely smooth process. When you're living it, it does not feel smooth, and you're just like crying and stressed. And I mean this has completely opened up my eyes to the plight of like undocumented immigrants and just how difficult that is because coming from the states and having a Mexican background, you kind of just live with that your whole life, so you just become like desensitized to just how impacting that is. Like it even affects your self-worth because it makes you think, "Where do I belong? Am I allowed to be somewhere? Why is this passport more eligible and more desirable than this passport?" So it was kind of like an emotional experience applying for the visa, but ultimately, because we were able to have a barbershop that said, "Yes, we need Sean Downey," like they were able to provide some sort of letter outlining why they needed this specific skill. And before moving, I corresponded with a relocation agency that honestly just took off so much of the stress and weight off of our shoulders. They answered all the questions we had at the bottom of my move plan. I had like the notes and the questions I would ask them. They're a wonderful Berlin-based company, it's called Expats In Wonderland. And from the moment I talked with them, told them our situation, they were able to outlin step-by-step what we needed to do in order to apply.
Manuel:
[10:09] How expensive was this service?
Loni:
[10:13] So for both of us, it was €1,050.
Manuel:
[10:16] Okay, that's reasonable.
Loni:
[10:18] Yeah. And I mean, they were available at all times, you know, so if we had a question, if we needed help with filling out documents or just, you know, kind of being the go-between, they also had a lawyer involved. So it wasn't just some relocation team, they also hire a lawyer to then apply for you specifically.
Manuel:
[10:37] Du! Du, Ausländer!
Loni:
[10:39] Yeah, to be on top of them. And yeah, definitely. I think it helped.
Sean:
[10:43] It came in handy, and it provided just a huge peace of mind because they were able to have like a well-defined timeline of how long we could expect from signing a contract to the visa process. And I think if we hadn't had them, just the lack of knowing would have just been devastating.
Manuel:
[11:03] Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's probably definitely possible to do this by yourself. You don't need to pay a service like this, but I can see how it would just make it so much easier and kind of give you peace of mind that there's not going to be anything you forget about that you learn when you're at the airport.
Loni:
[11:19] Yeah, no. And it was just the thing, like all of the forms and everything. Of course you can find the translated versions, you can do it yourself, but just knowing that they were able to step-by-step: Boom, I need this paper and it needs to be certified in this way. And for us just to: Okay, we'll do the legwork, we'll get you what you need. But then knowing that they're submitting everything on our behalf was so just comforting on ... Yeah, maybe we could have saved a thousand euros, but in the long run, it was worth it.
Sean:
[11:48] It was also really nice because at one point while we were waiting for our Ausländer Behörde appointment, you know, we started to honestly run out of money a bit. So the lawyer was able to communicate with ... They were able to communicate with them and I was able to get a permission to work until our appointment. [Ah, okay.] So it was it was honestly nice to have a bit of an extension there and leeway.
Manuel:
[12:15] So the visa that you have now, how long does that last and what does it entitle you to do or not?
Loni:
[12:23] Yeah, so we applied for the Employment and Residency Visa. We applied for three years, but they granted us four years. So until May of 2027, we have authorization to seek gainful employment. So since Sean is a barber, it is attached with the specific barbershop he's at for two years. After those two years, he is able to then work at any barbershop. And he's also available to take up freelance work, I think, within his profession.
Sean:
[12:53] Yeah, I believe I can apply for a specific permit or whatever to send invoices. So I'm not sure if it would be technically considered freelance, but it would work this ... a similar way.
Manuel:
[13:03] Okay. What's the barbershop? You want to plug the barbershop?
Sean:
[13:07] Of course, I would love to. It is: ROWDY Barbershop. There's three very nice locations here in Berlin. One in Friedrichshain, Prenzlauer Berg, and then, of course, one in Charlottenburg.
Manuel:
[13:20] Of course! [Of course!] [Of course!] How could you not have a barber ... ?
Loni:
[13:23] They have the best hair in Charlottenburg!
Sean:
[13:25] You should see the hair that goes through Charlottenburg.
Manuel:
[13:27] I know, those kids in Charlottenburg, they look amazing. By the way, we'll put the important things that you mentioned in the show notes, but you also created kind of a - what would you call this - whiteboard? Like a storyboard?
Loni:
[13:43] Like a flowchart, mind map situation.
Manuel:
[13:46] That has like all of your recommendations and services and tips, so we can just link to that and you can print it. It looks very pretty. So then you figured all of that out before you came, mostly at least, and then you traveled to Germany.
Travel to Germany
Loni:[14:04] Yes. In the thick of winter we took our …
Manuel:
[14:06] And then you immediately regretted having come to Berlin.
Sean:
[14:15] No, I think we still found it charming.
Loni:
[14:18] Yeah, we were … Okay, so in North Carolina, there are winters, but nothing quite as like ...
Manuel:
[14:25] Harsh.
Loni:
[14:26] As harsh, yeah, exactly. Nothing quite as harsh as Berlin.
Sean:
[14:27] Whereas, relentless, I think, is, yeah ...
Loni:
[14:30] So we arrived and it's kind of like ... you know, you're somewhere that you've never really experienced it before. I think Sean and I are both okay with trying to find the positive and the good of like, "Okay, well, this is the situation now. All right, why complain, right?" Which is very non-German, I've learned, right?
Manuel:
[14:50] True. So you booked one-way flights from JFK to Berlin.
Loni:
[14:55] Yes.
Manuel:
[14:56] €300 each, $300 each. [$300 each, yeah.] That's cheap.
Loni:
[14:58] Yeah, it was extremely cheap.
Manuel:
[15:01] Crazy. [No, and that was like ...] Including two [Exactly.] bags per person?
Loni:
[15:05] Yeah, so two huge undercarriage bags, two carry-on bags, and then our personal items.
Manuel:
[15:15] But then what did you do with all your other stuff? Because Americans have more stuff than that.
Sean:
[15:20] We do have a lot of stuff in America, in general.
Loni:
[15:23] Still you'd say?
Sean:
[15:24] Oh no, I'm just saying Americans accumulate tons.
Loni:
[15:29] We just sold a lot. I mean, yeah, we sold a lot of our things. I think we still have our car. [We do have our car.]
Manuel:
[15:36] You think you still have a car?
Loni:
[15:38] We may still have the car. I mean, who knows? It's probably like broke down and doesn't work anymore.
Sean:
[15:44] It was a cathartic experience to shed so much stuff. You realize how little you really need.
Manuel:
[15:51] I agree. I mean, I did this once when I left to travel the world for a few years, and I basically sold everything or gave away everything. I kept a few memories in my mom's attic, but it's really nice getting rid of everything and just feel so free.
Loni:
[16:09] Yeah, it was really cool because again, we got home from Europe in July of ... ah, the trip was 2022, I think, last year. Anyway, we got home, and in seven months we were like, "All right, let's do it." So yeah, we told our bosses, "Hey, we're leaving." And then we just started getting rid of things little by little. And yeah, but the two months before we moved, we lived with my parents, right before we moved, and we had like next to nothing.
Manuel:
[16:44] So then you got here and you have a list of all the things you had to do immediately after arrival.
Arriving in Germany
[16:52] So basically you still, even though you started worrying about the visa before, you still came with the tourist visa. [Right.] Which, having a one-way flight is not a problem, I guess?Loni:
[17:04] They didn't ask us for any verification that we had return flights, so ...
Manuel:
[17:09] Okay, and so, did they ask anything? Because what if they had asked you: What's the reason of your visit? Well, you want to move here? That's probably not okay, no?
Sean:
[17:19] I would have said probably: Vacation. Wouldn't have been a lie. [You know what?] Because we lived easy for that first three months.
Loni:
[17:27] Yeah, I mean we definitely could have been here and then said: Hey, actually, no.
Manuel:
[17:31] Right?
Loni:
[17:32] Right, because we didn't have anything submitted.
Manuel:
[17:33] I like your thinking.
Sean:
[17:34] Let your conscience be your guide!
Loni:
[17:36] Yeah, yeah. Be your conscience.
Manuel:
[17:39] Okay, but so then you did want to stay and so what were all the things you had to do?
Loni:
[17:45] Yeah, so since we were arriving as US citizens, we were able to register at the Burger ... ? [Mm hmm.] We did that. I scheduled our appointment like before we even moved. In Febru ... We moved in February.
Manuel:
[18:03] Very smart, because appointments are rare. And so you're talking about the Anmeldung, [Yeah, yeah.] which is a huge topic always for everybody because it's such a catch-22, because you need the Anmeldung for the visa, but you also shouldn't do the Anmeldung before you have the visa. But at the end of the day, yeah, you just need to do the Anmeldung because it really opens the door to many things.
Loni:
[18:27] Right. So same thing, my friend who lives in Berlin, when I told her, "Hey, now we went to Berlin, thinking of moving," she was like, "Cool1 I'm going to go do ... like study medicine in Cape Town for three months in February. Do you want to stay in my place?" And we were like, "Absolutely, yes. Say no more!" So that's why the decision to come in February really just ... [Materialized.] I think it expedited everything. It was like: Okay, cool! Now we have a date. And so she was able to get permission from her landlord to then allow us to do Anmeldung at her address. And so, yeah, we arrived February 22nd. Our Anmeldung appointment was March 1st. And then the next day, I think we met with the relocation agent to start our visa application.
Manuel:
[19:19] It's a good point about permission, because often when you find kind of temporary housing or a We-Ge, a shared apartment, often it'll say: No Anmeldung, because often the landlords don't want it, or it's just not permitted to even rent out your apartment or have a Mitbewohner, and so they don't want the landlord to know at all. So that's always a tricky situation. So it's good that you had someone who was like: Yeah, yeah, you can stay here and you can even do your Anmeldung. That really helps. But as a workaround ... I'm also saying this, you know, you have to see. I think strictly speaking you're not supposed to do this, but many people have the Anmeldung at a friend's place even if they're not technically living there, just so they can receive official letters and stuff in the beginning. So then you had the Anmeldung, and then you started the visa procedure, or finished it, I should say.
Finding Work
Loni:[20:25] Yeah, well, in order to then apply for the visa, we had to secure work contracts, which was a whole thing on its own.
Manuel:
[20:33] So the other thing that was missing.
Loni:
[20:35] Yeah, so I have some stuff written in here like: Get a telephone plan. So that same week we went to Aldi [Mm hmm.] and we got like these SIM cards, and we were also able to open up our bank account since we had already done the Anmeldung. [Mm hmm.] We were able to use that to get our N26 account, which has been pretty good so far, like no complaints on that front. So yeah, then it was the scramble to secure these work contracts, [Mm hmm.] because before we moved, again, we had already started laying the groundwork, corresponding with different ... So on Sean's end, he was corresponding with different barbershops. I was corresponding with different cafés, sending in applications, even doing interviews before we moved.
Manuel:
[21:15] All in English?
Loni:
[21:16] All in English. Yeah.
Manuel:
[21:17] Not a problem?
Loni:
[21:20] Kein Problem!
Manuel:
[21:21] Okay.
Sean:
[21:25] Yeah, so, I mean, this is where we kind of ran into our first bit of trouble. I will say, everyone we interacted with was very lovely. I think for both of us, just at the end of the day, the format of the payment didn't work out exactly to what we needed. We both needed a contract, not freelance.
Manuel:
[21:44] Ah, so they were like: Yeah, you can work here, but only on a freelance basis.
Sean:
[21:48] Or at least for me, yes, that's how it was. So, I had corresponded with Co Barbers. It's an amazing barber shop. It's just incredible and really lovely people working there. But even though it wasn't able to materialize, Kerr was super helpful. He recommended another shop that he had a good experience with, ROWDY, where I'm at now. And after maybe two-and-a-half weeks or so of, you know, running around I was able to sign a contract with them and they've been, Just lovely.
Loni:
[22:28] Yeah, which the contract offered everything that was needed in order to apply for the visa. So we knew one of the points was like: Okay, we need to get a contract that has a decent amount of hours so that the German government can see and be like: Oh, cool, like he can provide for himself. And then in that case, since we were going to do a family reunification visa for myself, [Mm hmm.] Sean was able to be the main applicant for the residency/employment visa. And then I was like, I applied with him [Mm hmm.] as a ...
Manuel:
[23:00] So you didn't need to find a job right away.
Loni:
[23:02] Exactly. Yeah. If I didn't want to work, I could just roam the streets of Berlin. Like a ...
Sean:
[23:07] She's a free agent.
Loni:
[23:08] I'm a free agent. I can do whatever I want. But because I'm an American gal that wants to be working, I was also looking for ... That was weird! I was looking for coffee shops to to work at, and doing interviews and yeah, I mean, as long as I was able to show that I had previous work experience, that's a big thing, honestly, in Berlin. [Mm hmm.] German, maybe not so, so necessary, however, previous experience, they really don't want to spend so much time training.
Manuel:
[23:40] Yeah, which I understand because I've honestly not spent so much work in gastronomy as an employee but I have as a customer. and you can tell the difference between someone who's just starting out and it's very easily ... because it's so stressful, right?
Loni:
[23:58] It is a stressful environment.
Manuel:
[24:00] That's not the problem, but it's just like, I mean, I know the popular places, you know, they're busy, they're busy, [Yeah, it's crazy.] and it is a stressful job and you can really tell when someone's overwhelmed and you can see when someone has experience, it's just like, you know, [Yeah, absolutely.] and ... So I understand. And English, yeah, it's part of the Berlin cliché almost, that kind of the hipper the place the least necessary it is to speak German, kind of, like it's expected that many of the customers, maybe most of the customers, or many of the customers and maybe most of the employees will not be from Germany, and that's fine.
Loni:
[24:41] Yeah, no, I mean I had the opportunity to work at a cafe, Coffee Circle, really really amazing, like the quality, the staff, everyone there is really phenomenal. I know that gastro gets a really bad rep for just mistreating employees, but I never once felt like it was a harsh environment. It was really nice. And the staff was extremely multicultural. We had people from Ireland, people from Greece, people from Peru, myself from the States, so it was just really, really nice that it created this environment where it didn't matter where you were from, as long as you had experience and you were really a good ... had a great way of interacting with others, then you were hired. So I think they really put that into importance there. Like, be a good team player and you can make the cut.
Manuel:
[25:34] And so you're both employed after like two weeks, basically.
Sean:
[25:39] On paper.
Loni:
[25:40] Yeah, on paper.
Manuel:
[25:41] On paper. Okay. And then how much longer did it take to be to actually be working?
Loni:
[25:49] June?
Sean:
[25:50] Yeah. June.
Manuel:
[25:52] So that's like how long after you arrived?
Sean:
[25:55] Maybe four months. [Okay.] Four months.
Manuel:
[25:57] So you did have, so this is good to know, you know, if people kind of want to follow your ...
Sean:
[26:03] Have your savings buffer.
Loni:
[26:04] Yeah, exactly. Save accordingly.
Manuel:
[26:05] You need a few months where you are possibly not ...
Sean:
[26:08] Or an online gig of sorts.
Manuel:
[26:11] Online or something ... I mean stuff that you can always ... Actually this is something that I don't know ... that if someone's listening who knows more about this, maybe we could have you on the show, but I think cleaning, there's now these apps and stuff where you can more or less start tomorrow [Right.] if you're willing and able to do that. And then also like delivery services, Wolt and Lieferando and stuff like that, I think they basically always look for people. But I don't know, we haven't had anyone on the show who's done this, so let's take it with a grain of salt. but it's probably better to have some savings.
Loni:
[26:52] Yes, because at the end of the day, once you put in, you let the government know like: Hey, I'm here, I want to live here, then you kind of have to adhere to the German laws.
Manuel:
[27:05] Mm, So you're not able to work. Yeah.
Loni:
[27:06] Which makes sense. So you're not able to work. Honestly, that's what it comes down to.
Manuel:
[27:08] You have to wait for the ...
Loni:
[27:09] You have to wait for the approval. So let your conscience be your guide. If you wanna work in that timeframe, [Mm.] cool. Just technically [No, that's a good point.] it's not allowed until you get that authorization.
Manuel:
[27:21] Yeah, yeah. So you got the job offer, but weren't able to work because you hadn't gotten the visa, which from an employer perspective also really sucks. [It's unfortunate.]
Loni:
[27:31] It's a bummer.
Manuel:
[27:32] I mean, they are like: Yes, we want this person to work for us, but then they have to wait. Like the government needs to get its shit together and this needs to be so much faster.
Loni:
[27:42] Yeah, it was ...
Sean:
[27:43] I think it even comes with a guilt component, being an employee, because you're like: Oh man, they've really gone out of their way to give little old me a chance, and then they're just waiting and waiting and waiting. [Totally.] It is a shame.
Manuel:
[27:55] Yeah. So you finally get your visa, three months in, four months in?
Visa Hiccups
Loni:[28:01] Yeah, so just about three months in, like the exact timeline of it was on April 6th, we got the email that our application was submitted. There were maybe about five weeks that passed, and then our agent that was working on our application said, "We need a little bit more information." [Mm hmm.] So then from April 6th until June 8th is how long it took for us to get approved.
Manuel:
[28:35] What was the information they were missing?
Loni:
[28:37] So, apparently our scans were not to the quality that they wanted. The scan was completely legible, very crisp, however, they needed it in a different format.
Manuel:
[28:47] Very crisp?
Loni:
[28:48] It was a crisp scan of our documents.
Manuel:
[28:51] Which crisp format did you send them in?
Loni:
[28:54] I mean, I did the whole [Was it ... ?] take a picture and then convert it to PDF [Uh-huh.] and it looked good, but they were like, "Not good enough." [I don't like it!] So I had to go to like a place, the printer shop, like, and have it in high resolution scan, [Really?] literally that picky, it was just so silly. Another point: good to have an agent because then they were like messaging them, "What's going on? Why is this not going through?" But yeah, it was that picky.
Manuel:
[29:22] That's so interesting. 'Cause I've often heard stories ... I was expecting something like: Oh, the health insurance that we bought didn't include pregnancy, for example, something like that. Those are reasons that I know can be like: Nope, we can't give you a visa because you're missing that one tiny thing. But I've never heard of the scans of the documents being in the wrong format.
Loni:
[29:46] So silly. Like, I can show you a side by side of the one that we submitted originally, and then the one that was submitted after. Next to no difference.
Sean:
[29:56] Spot the differences!
Loni:
[29:57] Yeah, spot the differences! It's the same. But that's literally all they needed. So then ...
Manuel:
[30:01] I mean, that's one of the big pieces of criticism, is that so many things come down to the specific person who handles your submission. So, you know, you win some, you lose some.
Loni:
[30:15] Yeah, so honestly that did delay us, because when we talked with our relocation agent, she had essentially said: By the time we submit, it's five weeks and you can start working. It's five weeks and you get authorization. Because it technically goes through a different branch of the Auslanderbehörde, it's like the B1, which is business immigration services, [Mm, yeah yeah.] which makes it a little quicker.
Manuel:
[30:38] Yeah yeah, those are ... they're quicker. [Yeah.] Because yeah, if all of this is really ... this is good to ... it's important to say that if you have this kind of skilled, skilled - what's the word? - skilled [Trade ... ?] trade visa, then it goes to that specific ... and they are told by the government: Hey, these are the people we need, so make it work. If you come here under different circumstances, as a refugee, [Yeah.] even if you're skilled, if that's not the visa you're applying for, it's definitely a different experience, it's going to take much longer. [Yeah.] But can I just say that I kind of want a relocation agent. That sounds so cool! Every time you say. "Our relocation agent did this," I'm like: Why do they have a relocation agent?
Loni:
[31:26] I know! I mean, honestly, it was a great service, and I can't say everyone should do it because I know everyone has different circumstances, however, we paid for our relocation agent because I had been in a really bad car accident in the States, and literally the week before we moved, I got my settlement that was exactly the amount to pay for the relocation agent.
Sean:
[31:51] Yeah, we had been on the spin. Then that happened.
Manuel:
[31:54] I know what you're talking about because when I was an exchange student in the US, I got into a car accident right at the end. And it was nothing really. I mean someone crashed into us at the intersection. But then I got a phone call from the person who crashed into us, their insurance, and they're like: Okay we want to ask you a few questions and if you agree then we'll give you like a settlement but then you can never sue us. Something like that. And I was so honest. I was like: Yeah, it hurt. like I had a headache for like two days, and yeah, no, nothing else really. And they're like: Okay, we'll give you $600. And I was like: Okay!
Loni:
[32:36] "Yeah but you know what, I think I actually had a stroke!"
Manuel:
[32:41] No, I mean, obviously, you shouldn't take advantage of that. [No, no, no, no.] But in retrospect, I was a little too easy on them. I was like: No, it was nothing, don't worry. Because I didn't know this was ... like, I didn't know this was going to happen. Like I didn't know ... I didn't understand the concept of they're asking you questions so that they can then make me an offer [Right. Exactly.] basically.
Loni:
[33:01] No. Back to why Berlin, this car accident had a lot to do with the decision to move, and just like how determined we were to be in an area where I didn't have to drive, because unfortunately we had horrible car drama right before we moved. And in the States, if you don't have a car - especially where we lived, we lived in a very rural are - if you don't have a car, you're walking for 20 miles by a cornfield, honestly. [Mm hmm.]
Sean:
[33:33] That's accurate.
Manuel:
[33:34] Is that where your car is now?
Loni:
[33:35] In a cornfield somewhere. [A secret cornfield.] We walked to the cornfield and it was like ...
Sean:
[33:40] It hasn't been detected yet because it's not harvest time. [Yeah, yeah, it's just under ... ]
Manuel:
[33:45] Okay, so you got a settlement from that. So you weren't hurt, but ...
Loni:
[33:48] I mean, I was. It was actually quite bad. It was two weeks right before our wedding. So it was one of those things ... [It was pretty traumatic.] It was extremely traumatic. And I was just ... Honestly, driving for the next few months was so terrifying to me. And I just it was ... [So now the U-Bahn seems even nicer!] The U-Bahn is my happy place! [It is lovely.] I love ...
Manuel:
[34:09] Yes! U8! Give me more!
Loni:
[34:12] Yeah, yeah. [Okay.] So definitely a main thing of like: I am kind of done with traffic, I'm done with dealing with the potential to be crashed into all of the time, and just ...
Sean:
[34:24] There's just a time vacuum I mean, I think we spent an hour and twenty minutes per workday getting to and from from work. And I mean, we still may have a commute here, but we could read or do something productive. [Mm hmm.] Loni can work on her flow charts.
Loni:
[34:40] Yes, exactly.
Manuel:
[34:41] Amazing.
Housing
[34:42] Okay, so now, when we talked before recording, you said this is maybe the most important topic: Housing. I mean, you got to stay for free at your friend's place for three months.Loni:
[34:57] No, we did sublease from her.
Manuel:
[35:00] Not for free, but in terms of no time investment, no stress, [Right. Zero stress, yeah.] no worries, no tears.
Loni:
[35:06] I guess that is free in a sense, [In a way.] stress-free. [Yeah.] Yeah. So before we moved I was on so many Berlin forums and groups on Facebook, and it was kind of scary to hear everyone's experiences and just how problematic it was to find housing. Yeah. I'm like: Isn't that a basic human right, to have somewhere to live? [Yes.] Like, come on. So it was really kind of intimidating. However, I summoned courage. I made a little housing CV with a picture of both Sean and I talking about who we were, we were doing in the city, what our plans were. And I posted it on a Facebook group, International Women in Berlin, which is really nice. And through there, someone saw my post and said, "Hey, I have a flat. I'm leaving."
Sean:
[36:08] "I haven't posted about it yet."
Loni:
[36:10] Yeah, "I haven't posted about it anywhere, but I saw your post, so maybe we can chat." [Wow!.] And we landed in Berlin, February 22nd. On February 23rd, we saw the flat, met the couple, liked them, said, "Let's do this!" And then like a week later, we signed a contract to sublease from them.
Manuel:
[36:29] This is not normal. But it is something to take note of, because it just proves that the method that used to be normal, that when I first moved to Berlin in 2012 was fine, it was work, but it always worked after a few months, which was checking ImmobilianScout, receiving notifications, and then applying. [Yeah.] That just doesn't really work anymore. I mean it works sometimes [Yeah.] if you have a lot of luck and you have all of the things that you need that you can't really have, like SCHUFA - we've talked about this a million times on this podcast.And so personal connections, even if they're personal-ish, [Right.] because it's a group, and I don't know ...
Loni:
[37:18] She'd never met us. I've never met her. [What was on your CV that she was like: Oh, this … ] I can … I can … We can add that to the show notes if you'd like. [Yeah.] I can give you a PDF copy of it. But essentially, it just had a picture of us, and it said, like: We're Sean and Loni, and we're moving to Berlin. [Give us an apartment!] We are young professionals, right? Blue collar professionals, but we're working. And yeah, I mean, we just said where we wanted to be, like, whatever, we just wanted a place to live.
Manuel:
[37:49] Wait, what, what .... ? Like, we want to be in Mitte or …?
Loni:
[37:52] Nein. We said Wedding, because Wedding honestly has our hearts. We love Wedding. [So do I.]
Sean:
[37:57] Hot take!
Loni:
[37:58] Hot take! We love Wedding!
Manuel:
[37:59] Der Wedding kommt!
Loni:
[38:00] Yeah. Ah, yeah, Wedding is coming, right?
Manuel:
[38:02] Yeah. But they've been saying that for a while. [For ever.]
Sean:
[38:06] Sponsored years!
Loni:
[38:07] Yeah. So we really liked Wedding. What else? Maybe we ... so we did not have Friedrichshain on the list, because we'd never spent time in Friedrichshain. I mean like Wedding, that's where we want that's where we want to be. And then this flat that we're at now ended up being in Wedding, I mean in Friedrichshain, and ... [Oh so you got the one that you didn't ... ] We love it! Yeah we had no idea. So I'm telling friends I'm like: Yeah we're gonna be living like Friedrichshain or whatever, and they're like: That is an amazing area! [Yeah, everybody wants to live there!] Like why are you ... Why are you so upset that you're living in Friedrichshain? I'm like: I've never been there before. It just seems too like mainstream or whatever.
Manuel:
[38:45] Fuck Berghain! I don't want to be near there!
Loni:
[38:48] Yeah, too cool.
Manuel:
[38:49] It's too cool!
Loni:
[38:50] It's too cool. It's just too cool for us.
Manuel:
[38:52] But it's such ... I mean, not to assign meaning to everything, you know, it's like, obviously there's chance and luck and stuff, but the fact that you got exactly what you didn't care about, what everybody else really, really wants. I don't know. It just ... it's interesting.
Loni:
[39:09] Our whole approach and like philosophy, I think with this move is: Let's just ride this wave as long as things are going okay, [Mm hmm.] and then we'll reassess, you know?
Sean:
[39:20] Not to say that we didn't put forth loads of effort, but things were falling into place fairly well. [Mm hmm.] So while we had that momentum ...
Loni:
[39:29] Yeah, but we haven't been like: Oh, it needs to be 60 square meters, it has to have a balcony, and it has to be facing east, and it has to be ... Like our standards are relatively low.
Manuel:
[39:37] So what's the apartment like? What does it cost? What's it like?
Loni:
[39:40] It's really nice. It's fourth floor, no lift. And I was hoping eight months in, it would be no problem, but I still struggle at the last floor.
Sean:
[39:49] We're still winded. [We're like: (gasps breathlessly)]
Manuel:
[39:49] Are you carrying your bike?
Loni:
[39:51] Ah, no, thankfully.
Manuel:
[39:53] I'm fourth floor. We do have a lift, but I carry my bike and the bike doesn't fit in the lift, so ... But ... keeps you healthy.
Loni:
[40:00] Yeah. I'm grateful ...
Manuel:
[40:01] Keeps your butt in shape. [My calves have never looked better!] Exactly.
Loni:
[40:04] Listen, I don't care. I'm grateful to have a place to live, honestly. Even if I had to climb six flights, I would do it.
Manuel:
[40:10] What about the cost? Because everybody's always asking.
Loni:
[40:12] Yes. So we have a 54-square-meter flat with two rooms, so one bedroom, one living room, kitchen, and a nice, decent bathroom. It was fully furnished, internet included, everything's included. We literally just showed up and: Cool, we have a place to live! Ten-month's sublease, and it's a thousand ... one, one ... €1100 even, each month. [Everything included.] But that's everything included.
Manuel:
[40:40] Yeah, that's fair. Not cheap, but also not crazy. But so it's a ten-months sublease. Are you getting nervous? Like what's the plan for afterwards?
Loni:
[40:54] Well, we're ... We're staying in Berlin at least until December of 2024, because [She did it again!] I felt the pressure mounting. You know, I was like: Oh, we have to find a flat, we have to find a flat, this is going to be so stressful! So for about three weeks, I was super diligent about checking ImmobilienScout, checking Facebook groups, checking everywhere. And then I ended up on this little orange app called WG-Gesucht. And I found us the next flat. So coincidentally, both couples that we're subleasing from, are traveling South America for like 10 months to a year. [Mm-hmm.] So I did the same thing. I saw this girl posted about a flat: We're going to be gone for a year, we're looking for some subtenants. Sent her the CV, sent her a little message about who we were, and what we were looking for. And yeah.
Sean:
[41:49] She said that we "seemed nice," which is true.
Loni:
[41:52] I hope so, but ...
Manuel:
[41:53] "You seem nice!" ["You are nice!"]
Loni:
[41:55] Yeah, no, she was like, "Cool, come over next week, you could see the flat." And I was like, "Nice!" So I messaged her a week later, we went and we saw the flat, she liked us, we liked her, and she was like, "Cool, let's move forward."
Manuel:
[42:08] This is the way to do it. And so these dates worked out exactly, where you're moving out of one place and moving into the other?
Loni:
[42:15] One month overlap, but not a big deal, like, yeah. So ...
Manuel:
[42:21] You can each have your own place for a whole month!
Sean:
[42:23] Absolutely.
Manuel:
[42:24] That'll be nice.
Loni:
[42:25] Two flats in Berlin. Oh! What are we going to do?
Manuel:
[42:27] Or just have ...
Sean:
[42:29] It's kind of a baller move, to have two flats.
Manuel:
[42:31] Yeah, you could have your friends over, maybe.
Loni:
[42:33] Yeah, maybe family will come. [Yeah.] We'll see. But yes, so the exact same method, just a different app. So I guess my advice to everyone would be, download all the apps. We even, I mean, we had even resorted to printing out our little CV, and we were going to like start handing it out. Sean was going to have it at his barber station and be like, "Hey, anyone see it? This is what we're looking for." However, thankfully, I just managed to send it to the right person, and she replied, and we were the only people to see the flat. She was like, "I didn't even schedule anyone to see the flat."
Manuel:
[43:09] Yeah. I really agree that putting yourself out there with like a search offer is worth the trouble. [Yeah.] Because I also found, this is many, many years ago and not in Berlin, but I found a shared apartment when I ... like one of my first jobs - it wasn't even a job, it was an internship - but anyway, I was looking for a place and I literally put an ad in the newspaper, the printed newspaper, [Wow!] and an old lady who was living in her apartment, but she had like two apartments in the same building that were hers, and the top one was a shared apartment, but she basically managed to live there, like she was basically managing, like, "I only want nice people." And she only did this by replying to search ads. So she never put an offer anywhere, not on the internet, not in the newspaper. She only replied to people who said, "Hey, I'm looking for a place." And so that's how I found that place. And your stories are a little bit similar now. [Yeah.] And I just think most people don't do this. Most people only reply to offers. So you're already like one step ahead if you're putting yourself out there and saying like, "Hey, I'm looking for something."
Loni:
[44:24] Yeah. And I know it's mentioned so many times, but it really does become a full time job. I was waking up, checking ImmobilienScout, checking WG-Gesucht, checking Facebook and even Kleinanzeigen. So I was alternating between four apps [Mm-hmm.] at any given moment. And yeah, I mean, you just kind of got to time it right and just hope for the best.
Manuel:
[44:50] Yeah, yeah. And I think your strategy of going into temporary leases at first, is also right. Even if you definitely want to stay for the rest of your life, which I don't know if anyone can say that, but even if you wanted to do that, I would do the first few months, if not years like this, because at that point you will have SCHUFA and the permanent job and all the things that you really need if you really want to have your own permanent lease. It'll just be easier.
Loni:
[45:21] Yeah, that was a side point about these two flats that we got. They didn't even ask us for it. We didn't even have work at the time.
Manuel:
[45:34] You're so nice!
Loni:
[45:35] Yeah, I don't know.
Sean:
[45:37] It really pays to be nice.
Loni:
[45:38] Like, I just ... They were like, "We like you. You can have our flat." I'm like: This could have been so bad for them.
Manuel:
[45:46] "Yeah, we could be bad!"
Loni:
[45:48] We could be bad! We could be like squatters. Like, we could have been like, "This is my flat now." But no, like, we're paying them every month, and we're taking care of the space like it's our own home. And ...
Manuel:
[45:57] No deposit? They didn't ask for?
Loni:
[45:59] Yeah, okay. Yeah, a deposit. But it wasn't even like first month, last month, it was half of the month's rent, like I don't know.
Sean:
[46:06] "These people might have Immobilienscout, but do they have charisma?"
Manuel:
[46:16] Okay, so you're here.
Loni:
[46:17] Yes.
Manuel:
[46:20] You're housed, you have a job. What else do you want to share? What about learning German, is that on your master plan somewhere? [Yeah.]
Learning German
Sean:[46:32] I think both of us would love to speak German and now that winter is upon us, we'll dig deep. But I will say for myself, I was very fired up about it when I first got here, and I had a lot of momentum, but I wasn't in the workforce. And then once I did get into the workforce, I realized that I have almost never needed it at my job.
Manuel:
[46:56] Yeah, I was going to ask, what about your job? Do you have clients who are like, "This is what I want," but they tell you in German?
Sean:
[47:03] I think this entire time, maybe four people have spoken like no English. So it really is not a problem most of the time, which is a shame. I know with Spanish, most of what I have learned, the little bit that I have learned, has been in sink or swim situations. So I wish there were more to practice German. But I think a Deutsch course is in our future for sure. [Okay.]
Loni:
[47:30] Yeah, I was even thinking today, I was like, we should, one week in winter, just take an an intensive everyday type thing, I think that would be better for me just to have that: Okay, we're focusing on German this full week. [Mm-hmm.] Yeah. There's a few things we can say, and it's funny because now I'm even starting to like think in German. So I was even having this realization yesterday, like instead of going, "Oh no!" I'm going, "Nein!" ["Nein!"] Like my thought process is: No, this is the language that I'm absorbed in, or at least attempting to be. And so yeah, it's funny how certain like mannerisms are coming out just from having been exposed to them. So yeah, we fall into that. So, and genau, like every now and then. Yeah.
Manuel:
[48:17] But it is interesting, if you think about it. I mean, everybody knows this, but it's kind of crazy that you can move to Berlin and more or less fully participate in society without knowing any German. [Yeah.] It's kind of ... I mean, you do suffer, obviously, because it's going to be harder to make friends and there's going to be situations, I'm sure, where it's like: Ah, it would have been useful to speak German here. But it's not like: Life sucks!
Loni:
[48:52] No, yeah, that hasn't been our experience. Like there are certain situations when of course I'm like: Man, I wish I knew more. So if I just wanted to call spontaneously to make a reservation at a restaurant, like, who knows, maybe the person that answers doesn't speak English, so then I would have to quickly adjust to German. Or even making medical appointments, you know, just spontaneously calling and saying: Hey, can you ... do you offer treatment to public insurance? So there are a few things that I want to be able to just get by on my own, [Mm-hmm.] as opposed to having to ask a friend to help me or something. [Mm-hmm.]
Sean:
[49:29] Yeah, one of the only things I consistently miss about the States is just the chattiness. Like we're from the American South, so we're always chit-chatting. And I mean, I'm sure culturally there's still some reservations, but I think there'd be a lot more opportunities if we spoke German. So little things, the little things in life, I'm sure will be enhanced soon.
Manuel:
[49:50] Yeah, on the subway, imagine you could be like, "Hey, nice sneakers! Where'd you get those?"
Sean:
[49:56] "Cool newspaper stack!"
Manuel:
[50:00] So I'm looking at your master plan/mind map. What else do you want to mention?
Social Life
[50:07] Social life is actually a big topic here.Loni:
[50:10] Yeah, I mean that was one of the aspects that was so appealing about moving, because again, we lived in a very rural small town. I think it was 3,000 people in the town that we were living in. So opportunities to spontaneously do something were not so available to us. So now we really just enjoy the cultural opportunities, the just funky, random, Späti parties that are happening. It's just so cool to just be able to walk outside of my front door and see ten beautiful moments and then see an array of people, that maybe when I was back home, I was the token like, "Oh, the Spanish girl," when I'm not from Spain, my background is Mexican. So it is kind of cool to see that there are so many cultures and so many different types of backgrounds [Mm-hmm.] just happening and living at the same time. So that's been really, really rewarding in moving here.
Sean:
[51:17] Yeah, and of course there are so many horror stories about people feeling that they can't make friends, and I'm sure that those are valid situations, but I think we've been fortunate enough. Both of our jobs keep us in contact with lots of people, [Mm-hmm.] and I think it's worth mentioning that you get out of it what you put into it. If you're a bit outgoing, even if it seems maybe uncomfortable at first, there's definitely many rich friendships to make.
Loni:
[51:44] Yeah, I mean, I know a few weeks back, one of my dear friends who works in marketing strategy as a freelancer, was collaborating with the Coffee Week Berlin. And at that time, I was able to participate with many of the events and be there, and just the amount of people that were so forthcoming and just willing to engage with you and go to events and do things together, it was really nice and refreshing, honestly, because we had this idea that we're going to get there and we're not going to make any friends and it's going to be so difficult. [Mm-hmm.] But thankfully, things have been nice where, like Sean said, if you are making the attempt to genuinely connect with people, because I feel like sometimes in big cities, friendships can be transactional, like: I'm only with you because I can get this [Mm-hmm.] or: You can help me with this project that I'm doing or whatever. But if you're genuinely approaching it from a human standpoint of: I want to make a connection with this person and let's see what happens, it's been quite beneficial and we've been able to find a family away from our family, which is really nice.
Manuel:
[52:54] Ah, you guys are so American. It's a lot, but it's also beautiful.
Loni:
[52:58] Yes, and we do have German friends. I wanted to make that point. Like, yes, we have made friends that are born and raised Berliners, but they've been really welcoming, which is cool.
Manuel:
[53:08] That's awesome.
Navigating The City
[53:10] Navigating the city, is another point on your mind map.Loni:
[53:13] Yeah.
Manuel:
[53:14] I mean we already learned you love the not driving. You didn't sign up for any of the drive share, pick up a car that's on the street?
Loni:
[53:24] Scooters. [Scooters? No?] Yes!
Manuel:
[53:28] You like scooters? But that's even more dangerous than driving. Those things are dangerous.
Loni:
[53:33] Well, I haven't gotten into an accident.
Manuel:
[53:35] Yet. You do know there's no settlements here if you ...
Loni:
[53:38] That's perfectly fine. I assume all risk when I am behind those bikes.
Sean:
[53:42] She is a risk!
Loni:
[53:44] No. [She's very good.] I'm a good driver when I'm on the scooter. So we got the Deutschland ticket, which has been so nice. [Mm-hmm.] Just ... [Yeah.] It's amazing.
Manuel:
[53:57] Yeah, I mean it's as new to us as it is to you because that didn't used to exist. I actually don't have it, because when I travel, it's usually far enough that I want to take the fast trains, the ICE, and this only covers the slow trains. And in Berlin, I almost never take public transport. I cycle everywhere.
Loni:
[54:22] Exclusively cycling?
Manuel:
[54:23] Pretty much.
Loni:
[54:24] So if you had to go from Wedding to Tempelhof, you'd cycle?
Manuel:
[54:27] Yes. I love cycling. And then if I do, if there's some big reason ... I mean, sometimes I take the subway, but it's not often enough that it, you know, it's, I don't know, I spend €10, €15 on the subway a month. And then sometimes, I mean, if I'm going somewhere far and it's raining and I'm with the dog and I'm lazy, then I will take one of those cars, you know, that you can just pick up. [Wow!] Or if I have to transport something. So I don't use the Deutschland ticket, but I still am a believer. Like I think it's amazing, especially if you're new, [Big time.] because you can go to Potsdam on the weekend, you can go to Brandenburg, you can go to the other end of Germany if you want if you're willing to take the slow trains, it's great.
Loni:
[55:15] No, we've really enjoyed it and it's just mind-blowing when we talk to people back home and they're like, "What? You pay like $50 and you get to go wherever you want?" Like, "Yes, absolutely. It's fantastic."
Sean:
[55:28] We also really love the trains directly to the airport. It's great just being able to walk downstairs for those who are new to Berlin. All you have to do is walk downstairs and then you can get on the train to the city.
Manuel:
[55:41] From the airport? I find the train situation at BER airport catastrophic. It depends on the terminal, I think. One of the terminals is fine because we're right there, but the other terminal, you literally ... it's a brand new airport, you literally have to go out of the terminal, [Yeah, okay.] into the rain, there's no roof, [Okay, okay.] cross the street, there's like buses and shit, back into the other terminal, and then go downstairs. How would you ... Why would you plan an airport like that? That makes no sense.
Loni:
[56:11] How much time have you spent at like JFK and LaGuardia? Those are absolute chaos.
Sean:
[56:19] Or MCO, Orlando?
Loni:
[56:20] Oh my God!
Manuel:
[56:21] No time. None. [It's chaos!] Okay, but those are old airports. And the two airports that Berlin used to have were also old. so whatever flaws they had, fine. But BER was like the big project, took them 70 years to complete. And that's the best they could do? You have to walk out?
Loni:
[56:40] Yes, I know. Build a tunnel!
Manuel:
[56:41] Yes, a tunnel or two stops, one for each terminal, or a bus, or something.
Loni:
[56:47] I don't know. We're coming from a point of extreme gratitude because anytime we wanted to take an international flight back home, we'd have to ask someone ...
Manuel:
[56:55] How many times have you gone back home? You just got here!
Loni:
[56:58] I'm saying like when we lived in the States, if we wanted to fly internationally, we either had to have someone drop us off two hours by car to the airport, or take our car and leave it parked there and then ...
Manuel:
[57:11] And here you can take the subway.
Loni:
[57:13] Here we can just take the ... [Or the S-Bahn.] Like it's amazing. Like for us, I think it really is a matter of perspective, and maybe what you had before compared to what you have now. But this is fantastic and we love it. Like when we came to Berlin, we even rented a car and drove all the way up to New York. So that was like a nine-hour trip just to get onto an international flight to get here.
Sean:
[57:36] If you're arriving at Terminal 1, you're in luck. You just have to go downstairs.
Loni:
[57:40] Terminal 2? Just forget it!
Sean:
[57:41] 50-50.
Manuel:
[57:42] So final words.
Final Words
[57:47] What ... I mean, do you feel like we shared? First of all, I want to say I'm impressed. You have it figured out. [No!] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope you took notes, there'll be show notes, we'll link to the mind map. I think you fit in very well in Germany, because we love planning and like, you know, making a plan, carrying it out. But what do you want to share that we haven't talked about yet?Loni:
[58:19] Something that is very, very important to me is that travel can be accessible not only for those who are elite or seeking luxury travel. I Think both Sean and I come from ... not that I think, I know that both Sean and I come from quite poor backgrounds with single mothers and just the opportunity to be able to travel, it should be accessible to everyone. And I think our move is kind of a depiction of that, because by no means did we do anything the luxury route. By no means did we ... I don't know, I just feel like the opportunity is there if you are willing to do diligent research, save for ... a number of times we made lots of sacrifices in order to save to come here. So I just think that's kind of important, is to make travel accessible and and something that it is obtainable to those who may be come from lesser means It doesn't have to be something that you only see on the TV or that only certain people are able to enjoy those benefits. So I would like to make myself available. I mean if anyone listens to this and has sincere questions and are just curious as to what routes to take, like absolutely, I'll drop my email or anything so ... [Discord. We have a discord.] Yeah, I would join it and and just try to help out, because I think it's something that can be possible. You just have to do a little bit of work, but it can happen for you.