Transcript

Tea Talk

Manuel:
[0:09] All I know about today's episode is that you are going to go on a rant.

Jae:
[0:13] That's all you know. Yes. We'll save that for later.

Manuel:
[0:17] Later? The rant is later?

Jae:
[0:19] Yes.

Manuel:
[0:19] Okay, what's first?

Jae:
[0:20] What kind of tea are you drinking?

Manuel:
[0:23] It's called Halswärme, Throat Comfort. I don't know what's in it.

Jae:
[0:30] Throat Comfort.

Manuel:
[0:31] It's one of the fancy Yogi teas.

Jae:
[0:33] Ah, okay. I'm drinking ...

Manuel:
[0:34] With a slogan. Mine says: Sei du selbst! Alle anderen sind schon besetzt. Be yourself, everyone else is already occupied. Haha, that's a good one!

Jae:
[0:45] Good, very inspiring. Mine is Mediterraner ... [Mediterraner Tee?] But it's the peach one.

Manuel:
[0:55] Peach, I do not like peach tea.

Jae:
[0:58] I love peach tea, it's quite delicious. Coffee or the tea?

Manuel:
[1:02] Hey, I stopped drinking coffee. [Really?] I mean I'm still drinking decaf. And I'm not going to be religious about it, I think I may have a cup of coffee here and there, but I used to drink three cups of coffee at least every day. [Yes.] And I went cold turkey and I realized that I'm just the same throughout the day now. Like I'm not hitting the crazy peaks of being super tired, and then having a lot of energy. I'm just like normal, and it's it's like a revelation.

Jae:
[1:40] And I'll even add, tea makes you feel great.

Manuel:
[1:45] When you say green you mean no ...

Jae:
[1:47] Tea makes you feel great.

Manuel:
[1:49] But do you mean black tea and green tea, like caffeine free [Oh, all tea.] or herbal tea, as well? [All. Every time I ... ] How does it make you feel great?

Jae:
[1:59] Every time I drink any type of tea, I just feel very warm and happy inside!

Manuel:
[2:04] It is a warm beverage, yes!

Jae:
[2:06] And I'm just like, aah!

Manuel:
[2:08] Aah, winter!

Jae:
[2:09] Yes. I mean, Earl Grey tea is good, green tea is good as well, but I am just as happy drinking peach tea or lemon ginger tea. I will choose tea over coffee. So thanks for coming over to my side.

Manuel:
[2:22] I don't know if I can drink hot tea in the summer, though.

Jae:
[2:25] Really? I mean, you can make iced tea.

Manuel:
[2:27] Yeah, iced tea is great. [Iced tea is delicious.] Anyway, we're back, and I think we're talking about housing again, today.

(Zweck-)WGs

[2:38] It's a recurring theme on this show, as well as on any Berlin party or conversation between friends. It's all about the housing situation.

Jae:
[2:49] It's all about the housing situation. That says something about Berlin. Love Berlin, but ooh! The housing situation! And it never ends. But I do think there is a way to make your housing situation easier, once you find a place. I can't help you if you're looking for a place.

Manuel:
[3:11] You can, you have! [Yeah, actually yes, yes.] We have tons of episodes about it [Yes.] with tons and tons of tips [You're right, you're right.] and tricks and documents and things you can do to at least increase your chances. So listen to previous episodes to learn about how to possibly find a place.

Jae:
[3:26] Yes. So now we're talking about once you have found the place, and more specifically, we're talking about WG situations or subletting.

Manuel:
[3:37] Explain what that means.

Jae:
[3:38] So a WG is - [WG] WG [WG] WG [There you go!] - is essentially a flat share. It is when you are living with other people. I don't know why they have the ... I don't know why there's such a certain word for it.

Manuel:
[3:59] Wohngemeinschaft! It's a living society!

Jae:
[4:01] Yeah, but it's just ... it's just having roommates that is ... [Well.] It is ...

Manuel:
[4:05] We have a word ... We have a proper noun for it, and I love that there's a whole ... like there's also subcategories. For example, there's Zweck-WG. Have you heard that before? So a Zweck-WG is basically ... Zweck means purpose, and what that basically means is you're not friends! I don't know why the Friends-WG doesn't have a proper noun, but a lot of WGs, a lot of room shares or flat shares, you are friends and you hang out and you sometimes cook together and have dinner together. I think that's probably the norm or the more common case. But there's also Zweck-WG, which sometimes people, even when they're looking for someone, they put it in the description like: This is a Zweck-WG, and that basically means: We're just going to save on rent by living together, but I don't really want to have dinner together. Which I think is so German and so hilarious. That you would put that in the description!

Jae:
[5:04] That is very German and very hilarious. And I will say that the flat that I'm talking about was a Zweck-WG, because I do not want to be friends with that person. I do not like that person.

Manuel:
[5:14] You're talking about the past tense, right? [Past tense.] So you were in a Zweck-WG.

Jae:
[5:18] Yes, I live with my partner now.

Manuel:
[5:19] Is this where the rant starts?

Jae:
[5:20] This is where the rant starts, right? So I should have ... I mean, the frustrations with finding a flat in Berlin to live with is that you, if you're not living with actual friends, you are really rolling the dice on whoever you are living with, you know. Like you don't know these people and you don't know how they're actually going to be when you live with them. It is very easy to clean a flat for a flat viewing, and then go back to your ugly, dirty ways after the person has moved in. And then you're locked into that contract because shit just happened that way and you were desperate for a place to live and you didn't actually have the time. That is the really fucked up part about being in Berlin is like when you're finding housing, you're quite desperate a lot of the times, and you don't realize that you should probably be putting a little bit more security under yourself. So even if you are signing contracts and stuff like very fast, you always have some security. Two ways that I think that we'll get into later that I think would be good. it, three ways actually, the Berlin Tenant Association, insurance, and not giving your deposit directly to your landlord or whoever. So, this situation is like ... Yeah, I think the big reason why I am talking about this situation is because it's happened to me quite like a few times.

Manuel:
[6:59] How many WGs have you been a part of in Berlin? You've only been here for like two years.

Jae:
[7:04] I've been a part ... when you're living with your partner, that does not count, does it?

Manuel:
[7:09] That's not a Zweck-WG usually. [Okay.] That's a ... You're living with your partner

Jae:
[7:10] Then I've been happy to only actually have like three WGs that I've lived with. The first one was pretty good, that was when I first moved to Berlin, and then the second two were a bit ... I like to forget that I lived at those things. [Mm.]

Jae's last WG ("The signs were always there")

[7:34] But the second one, like the time that ... it was really difficult for me to find the second flat and also it was like the last month that I was trying to look for a flat from my the last month of my last lease, and this person had just posted on a Facebook WG, like Queer Berlin channel, and I went I viewed it. I thought it was okay. Little did I know this person was messy, dirty, annoying, never cleaned up, never responded to messages, and was just a difficult person to live with, like a very difficult person to live with. I should have known. Most times ... and if you've lived in a very shitty situation before you probably will admit that the signs were always there. Because I had to push him to like respond to my message of: Did I get the flat? That was already like, I think, a red flag, yeah, like I had to push to like get you to respond to me, to make sure that that I was going to get the flat, I should have just accepted that and let it go then. But to make a long story short, it was just very difficult living with him, specifically because he was just very messy. And like I worked from home a lot of the times, and he would wake up and he would go to work, but he would leave the kitchen a complete mess after he left in the morning. So if I needed to use the kitchen, I was dealing with a very dirty situation or whatnot, right? And yeah, it was just a very difficult situation. And I'll come back to him, but I'm not even ...

Manuel:
[9:10] You're not done with him yet.

Jae:
[9:12] I'm not done with him yet. I want to talk about the landlord. So we were subletting from a main tenant, right?

Manuel:
[9:18] So you ... both of you were living in a WG. Just the two of you or was it ... ? [Yeah, it was just the two of us.] Just the two of you. But neither of you was actually renting the place. He was subletting.

Jae:
[9:29] He was also subletting.

Manuel:
[9:30] He was subletting from someone else and then subletting to you, to let you ... ? subletting to you ... ?

Jae:
[9:35] No, we were ... So the way that I understand it, there were the main tenants and I call the main tenant the landlord, just because [Okay.] that's the person that I was ...

Manuel:
[9:44] So, as in any good contract we're defining main tenant as landlord! [Yeah.] Landlord as main tenant. Then we have the Mitbewohner [Mm.] or whatever. We're not gonna say names, I think, for libel reasons.

Jae:
[9:55] Yeah.

Manuel:
[9:56] So what ... so that your ... what nickname should we give him?

Jae:
[10:00] I mean he was just the flatmate. And then there was the main tenant.

Manuel:
[10:04] John. Can we call him John?

Jae:
[10:05] We'll call him John.

Manuel:
[10:06] Okay. So John was your flatmate who was subletting from the landlord.

Jae:
[10:09] Yes.

Manuel:
[10:09] And then you were paying John for the privilege of cleaning up after him.

Jae:
[10:15] So, interesting, yes and no! So, John paid the main tenant, we'll name him, Greg.

Manuel:
[10:24] Ah, so I forgot the main tenant. Okay, so the main tenant is actually paying the landlord!

Jae:
[10:28] Yes.

Manuel:
[10:28] And then John was paying Greg, the main tenant! And then, who were you paying?

Jae:
[10:35] Okay, John and I both had a contract with the main tenant, Greg. [Yes. ] Right, okay?

Manuel:
[10:42] Individually, each one of you.

Jae:
[10:44] We were actually on the same contract.

Manuel:
[10:45] Oh, so one contract that you both signed with Greg?

Jae:
[10:48] Yes, I learned a lot of lessons, okay? Don't do that, make sure you have your own contract with the landlord, first and foremost. So John was living in that flat with his friend before. They had the thing ... that was a friend's like WG situation, yeah. [Not a Zweck-WG.] Yeah, and then, so John was always paying Greg the rent. Like ...

Manuel:
[11:13] Where's Greg at? Why is he renting a place ... ?

Jae:
[11:17] Greg is in Spain, Barcelona! Because him and his wife they don't like Berlin, and as a family obviously, as well, so they left, but they still had this flat. So they just sublet it out. [As you do. You don't give up a Berlin flat if you have it, which is terrible but also understandable.] As you do. You don't give up on it, no you don't. And very understandable. So yeah, they're there. And they're just like ... So when John's ex-roommate left, they were like: John, okay, just figure it out, find a new flatmate, right?

Manuel:
[11:48] Greg was like: I don't care as long as the money's flowing in.

Jae:
[11:51] Yes, exactly. So I was like: Okay, sure, that works. They gave me ... And like legally, based off of papers, it all went right. Like I signed the contract, like the wife and the husband are very involved. There's communication going on there.

Manuel:
[12:08] You mean Greg and his wife. They knew that John was signing a contract.

Jae:
[12:13] I even got my Anmeldung from there and everything. Like it wasn't like the situations where, you know, you can't tell them, or whatnot.

Manuel:
[12:18] Yeah, yeah.

Jae:
[12:19] You know, so for the most part, that went well. I ... John and I did have issues with Greg during our time living there, simply because if there was any damages or there was anything going on, Greg always made it our fault, that we did it. Like for example, as small as a light bulb going out, or something happened and there was leakage under the kitchen sink - actually, a lot of issues - leakage under the kitchen sink, the toilet seat breaking just because it was old, like those were all "our faults" and he always made us responsible for them, even though there wasn't our faults. I was very ... well and I'll even hold John to that, he was actually like, he did not break any of those type of things, right? So we did a lot of back and forth. And what really, really pisses me off is that I don't live in that fight anymore. But I gave him a deposit of like €1,000.

Manuel:
[13:31] Whom? John or Greg?

Jae:
[13:33] I gave John it, to give to Greg.

Manuel:
[13:35] So you gave it to John and told him, "Give it to Greg?"

Jae:
[13:38] Yes! [It doesn't sound too smart!] I'm learning a lot of lessons, okay?! And I'm sure a lot of other people don't actually ever talk to the main tenant either. They probably talk to another sublet person. That person probably is the one that deals with their stuff. [It's a pyramid scheme.] It is! It feels like it! But that wasn't ... that also was not the issue. [Okay.] So let's say it's - long story short - now it's time for me to move out of this flat. As I am moving out of this flat, the main tenant - he's come back to clean out the flat - and he shows me ... [Greg?] Yes, Greg comes back.

Manuel:
[14:18] He takes a plane from Barcelona, [Yes.] jumps on on the EasyJet, [Yes.] and opens the door, [Yes.] and says, "Okay, let's clean up. Let's check if everything's clean,

Jae:
[14:29] Yes. So surprisingly everything was well, but he got this letter for an illegal downloading stream. And that was what fucked us up. It was for a thousand, six hundred and something euros, right?

Manuel:
[14:45] Quick interlude to explain this, because not everybody may be aware of this scheme. When you download something off the internet illegally, like piracy, if you download a music album or a movie, there's different ways of doing it. You can do a direct download sometimes, or a stream, and in those cases, even though it's illegal, there's basically no way for anyone to pursue you because it's just some server on the internet. You're downloading something off of it and that's technically very hard to pursue - for like the music industry or the movie industry to pursue anyone - but one of the very common ways that people do it is is BitTorrent or torrenting. And the way that works is like peer-to-peer, everybody's sharing with everybody. And so if you're downloading a torrent with, let's say, a movie, then as soon as you download the first few bytes of that movie, you're also starting to share those bytes to the network immediately.

[15:51] So you're downloading, starting the download, now you've downloaded one megabyte off of everybody else's computers. Now you're also sharing that first megabyte with everybody else who's trying to download that movie. And what the music and movie industry is doing, not even directly in some cases, but there's basically these law firms that specialize in "catching people," quote unquote. And the way they do it is by also downloading it, and you ... and and since it's peer-to-peer, since it's direct, they're getting it from your computer, so they're seeing your IP address. And then they can go to the government - I don't even know where - like to the internet, to the internet company, and say: Okay, we're these these attorneys and we've been able to download this from this person, so we need to know who it is, who used this IP address at this date and time.

[16:53] And since ... And it's also like stricter, like downloading is, I think, also illegal, but it's less problematic. But if you're uploading it, the argument is you're ... like you're sharing, like it's more illegal, it's worse than just downloading. Like you're making it available, like it's almost like you're a dealer, right? Like you're giving it away. And so that's how they come after you. And then they send you a letter which doesn't mean anything legally yet, like no judge is involved, the government isn't involved, no one is involved. It's literally just some random law firm that does only this 24/7 - like there's these law firms that are specialized in this - and all they're doing is sending you a special ... like a scary letter, an Abmahnung, a cease and desist letter, saying: You need to sign this and promise that you'll never do this again, and you need to pay a fee of usually a couple ... like a few hundred or around a thousand euros.

[17:52] And they make it sound really scary, and you need to reply within two weeks, "Or else we'll sue you." And this used to be like a giant industry even in Germany, and I think it's gotten less bad because, I think, there were some laws that were changed to make it harder. Because it's basically - like I'm not condoning piracy - but this was not like a way to protect like the rights of the movie industry or anything, it was basically just a get-rich, get-rich-quick scheme for lawyers. Like basically it was a very easy way for them to get rich quickly by just sending out these scary letters. And so apparently this is still a thing. And so that's the type of letter that Greg got, because the internet was in his name, and so he got a cease and desist letter from a lawyer saying: Hey, someone downloaded a movie ...

Jae:
[18:49] All of Season One of Succession.

Manuel:
[18:52] Succession, which is a great show!

Jae:
[18:54] Apparently!

Manuel:
[18:55] I would gladly pay a €1,000 to see it again

Jae:
[19:00] €1,600 for Succession. Yes. Now you explained it just exactly, that is exactly it. Like the the entire letter, it was like ... It showed the IP address, it showed it was from him, and it showed like all the episodes.

Manuel:
[19:18] And also, like this is where my knowledge is not that great, but I think, basically, if these lawyers can't ... Like if you say, "Hey several people are using this account," and no one admits to doing it, then there's nothing much that these lawyers can do about it. Because they, in the end, need to prove who it was, and if the IP address was used across several people, like in your situation, then they have not much of a legal case. I think that's the way it goes. I think that's my understanding, that they can't just, you know, pursue Greg because the account is in his name. Maybe I'm wrong about that. If you're a lawyer, write in and and tell us. But Greg had this letter in hand when he came back from Barcelona. What happened next?

Jae:
[20:12] It was basically ... So Greg asked me ...

Manuel:
[20:15] First of all, who downloaded Succession, and how was it ... ?

Jae:
[20:18] I will get to that. I still don't know who the fuck downloaded Succession. [You didn't?] No, I did not do it.

Manuel:
[20:24] Have you watched Succession? [No.] It's a great show!

Jae:
[20:26] I've seen, I think, one episode on HBO Max back in the US whenever I was legally doing that shit. But ... so John has left the flat at this point. He moved back to Spain. So it's like the last month of like our "release" quote-unquote, and I'm the last one there, so Greg comes to me and says, "Hey, I got this letter on March, or on May 29th," or some date in May this was done, because it has the date. I was like, "Okay this is interesting. I've never seen Succession." I can prove that it was at least ... like apparently it was streamed over like a few ... or downloaded over a few days, but at least the first days, I was coming back from a flight from Barcelona to Berlin at the time of the first attempt, right?

Manuel:
[21:17] You have an alibi as well?

Jae:
[21:19] Yes. I have an alibi.

Manuel:
[21:22] Alibi.

Jae:
[21:23] The thing was, John also technically was not at the flat, because John, during the month of May, went back home to Spain and sublet his room out.

Manuel:
[21:37] Oh my God!

Jae:
[21:38] So there was someone else living in John's place [Yes?] during that time.

Manuel:
[21:47] Let's say Anna. Anna.

Jae:
[21:50] Anna was living in John's place during that time, right?

Manuel:
[21:53] I really hope she enjoyed Succession!

Jae:
[21:55] I really fucking hope she did as well! Or they did!

Manuel:
[21:59] I mean, we're not saying Anna did it. it. But it sounds like you both had an alibi.

Jae:
[22:04] Currently sips tea ... !

Manuel:
[22:06] Greg was in Barcelona, so was John for some of the time.

Jae:
[22:11] But Greg does not know that.

Manuel:
[22:12] So were you. Everybody was in Spain. [Yeah.] That's a bit suspicious!

Jae:
[22:16] But Greg does not know that John was not there, right? So John just says, "That wasn't me, I was not at the flat." [Okay.] That was it. And so I'm like, "Okay, John, I just wanted to let you ... " Like so, Greg ... I'm there back in the flat, so I text John I'm like, "Hey John, this is what was received. I think it could have been Anna during the time of them subletting from you. [You snitch!] I was not going to ... like I'm not going to tell Greg, I just want you to know. [Uh-huh.] Because this does not involve me. I was not the one." [Yeah.] And then John's like, "Okay, you know, I understand, I respect that it wasn't you. Let's ... like Greg's like okay, let's not jump any guns. Let me figure out if this is real or not, right?" So a few months do go by. I move on to the next flat, and I'm like ... and we're still ... he finally has figured out that, "Yes, it is an actual claim. I need to know who did it."

Manuel:
[23:19] Which, by the way, this is a good point. Like even though it's a lawyers-getting-rich-quick scheme, you do need to respond. Like if you don't respond to a letter like this at all, it just gets worse, and it escalates and it could lead to a serious legal situation, so you do need to like either get representation or research your way out of it. Under no circumstances should you ever just sign a letter like this and just pay the amount that they want. That's the worst thing you can do, but the second worst thing that you can do is is to just completely ignore it. You do need to answer and say: No. And then usually there's some kind of negotiation, and then you might have to pay something, maybe not, but you need to react. You can't just ignore it.

Jae:
[24:00] That would be what the smart person would do. But let's say that Greg is a dumb person. I have other words for Greg, but Greg is a dumb person, right? [Okay.] So he just accepts that this is an actual claim, right? Right. So for the ... So we're like: Okay, this is going on. I'm texting John on another like DM, saying, "Hey this is going on. I need you to admit fault to this because it wasn't me and I think it was Anna. I'm not going to expose you for subletting your room out illegally. "[Oh so Greg didn't know about Anna?] No, Greg doesn't know about Anna. And that's why I have not snitched, but I just let John know. And I was trying to be respectful and stuff like that. I'm like, "You're going to take care of this, and you're going to make sure that it was not me." [Yeah.] Right? So, Greg's like, "Okay" ... no, John's like, "Okay, like, I understand. I will say that it was not you, but I'm not taking claim for this." So, that was a bit of a tricky situation. Keep in mind, this is like months after we've moved out. I got this in July, this is now like October, right? I still don't have my deposit back. John and Greg meet in Spain because John has now moved back to Spain. Greg also is back in Spain. They meet up apparently.

Manuel:
[25:25] Who lives in the apartment? Just Anna now?

Jae:
[25:27] No. We've all ... Like July was us all leaving, like we were all leaving our apartment. Like Greg had to give the apartment up - I think I forgot to mention that. [Oh, so ... ] So nobody is in the apartment anymore.

Manuel:
[25:39] Just the landlord rented it out to someone completely new?

Jae:
[25:42] Yes. Greg's time was up. So our time was up as well. [I see.] So we're still dealing with this. Like I'm still attached to these people that I don't effing want to be attached to.

Manuel:
[25:52] You can curse on your own podcast!

Jae:
[25:54] I don't fucking want to be attached to these goddamn people, but I am still doing that, right? So I talked to my mom, who is also a lawyer, and ... But she's a lawyer back in the States, right? Do she doesn't really know the German law or whatnot, but she's like, "Okay, just play nice as much as you can, right?" Aargh! The biggest regret of my life. Because I'm like, "Okay, I'll play nice. I'll let them talk or whatnot." So they meet up, and then Greg reaches out to me privately saying: "Hey, I talked to John. Turns out John is admitting no fault to it. It wasn't him. He even proved that he was not in the flat at the time, so I don't know what to do. Like, like you can show me ...

Manuel:
[26:38] And you said that Greg just accepted it. Does that mean he paid it?

Jae:
[26:42] No, he has not paid it, but he accepted that this is a real claim that we're going to have to pay. It's going to come out of our deposit. [Okay.] So I'm like: Okay, you, John did not admit fault to it. I want to talk to Greg. So I text Greg. I'm like, "Okay, hey, can we talk this day? And also, can you send me the claim? Because I need to actually get actual representation. I need to know." This gets to the actual topic of today. But I also tried to reach out to Greg again to get the actual screenshot of the file. And then he goes off at me saying, "How dare you try to push me? How dare you?" Like he was just being very aggressive of me trying to get information out of this whole situation, right? And I'm not getting anything from neither one of these people. Both people are resisting to help and cooperate or whatnot. Anna is apparently ... Like John reached out to Anna and Anna denied it. Obviously Anna's going to deny, "I haven't seen Succession ever. No idea what's that show about." And then John was like, "Okay, but like Anna also showed me their IP address, and it's different. No shit it's going to be different! You're in a different place now. The Wi-Fi is different.

Manuel:
[27:59] Wait, what? She sent you a screenshot of her current IP address as proof that she didn't download Succession? [Yes!] That's awesome!

Jae:
[28:07] And I'm just like: Aargh. So my mom had a coworker who was living in Germany and they tried to help me a bit, but they don't really know like tenant laws or whatnot. I reached out to a person who does deal with the illegal downloading situation. They weren't able to help me.

Berlin Tenant Associations

[28:28] So my next thing was finding a Berlin Tenant Association. Or what they're called is a "Myterveerian" ... [A what?] "Meterverean?"

Manuel:
[28:40] Ah, Mieterverein! Berliner Mieterverein!

Jae:
[28:42] Yes.

Manuel:
[28:43] Which is an association that is, I think, not profit oriented. It's like ... [Yes.] It's an NGO almost [Exactly.] and you can join it and you can become a member and then basically you're paying a monthly fee or whatever. And if at some point you have any issues with your landlord, they will support you and even possibly provide legal counsel representation without you having to employ your own lawyer. [Yes.] And so you joined them, but isn't it the kind of situation where you should really join before something has happened?.

Jae:
[29:22] Yeah. So I'll get to all that. So yeah, so essentially, you summed it up. Like that's pretty much for what they do. They really do help you or at least help you like in those situations. They can check your lease, help you with a bad landlord, get your rent reduced and also help you sublet an apartment. And they can even represent you like in court but only if the problem happens after you have become a member.

Manuel:
[29:49] In a way, it's almost like an insurance that they offer. [Yes, yes.] It's not an insurance company, it is an association, but the idea is similar to where lots of people join, pay a monthly fee ...

Jae:
[30:00] But that is insurance, though. That is included, like it is ...

Manuel:
[30:03] It includes insurance, and as with any insurance, you can't get the insurance after the car crash, you have to get it before.

Jae:
[30:08] Yes, exactly. So that was where I was at. So I want to talk a little bit about the Berlin ... like the different associations, just really two.

Manuel:
[30:21] And you brought a representative, Bill. Here he is!

Jae:
[30:24] "Hi, I'm Bill!"

Manuel:
[30:25] No, you didn't! We should have invited someone from the ...

Jae:
[30:30] This one-hour monologue introduction ... !

Manuel:
[30:33] "Oh, by the way, there's someone else sitting here!"

Jae:
[30:36] But I wanted to talk about just really two, because those are the two that I was going going back and forth on, and then just my choice of ... if actually I liked the choices that I chose. [To what?] The two options, because there's a few like tenant associations.

Manuel:
[30:51] Oh, there's not just one?

Jae:
[30:52] No, yeah there's multiple. There's at least five in Berlin, but there's like a few online ones, but there is ... there's the Berliner Mieterverein, then there is Mieterschutzbund, and then there's also Conny, which is also an online one. And then there's one that I have, which is another online one, which is called Mieterengel. [Mieterengel, Tenant Angel, Mieterengel.] Yes, Tenant Angel. So I was looking at the Berliner Mieterverein and the Tenant Angel one. Because the Mieterengel was one that a friend also has, and it was online. My biggest fear was using one ... and I also don't speak German, right? So I needed to have something that I can at least translate. The thing with these ten associations is ... And unfortunately, you know, when things aren't commercialized, they're also not the best service that you get as well either, so the reviews of like the Berliner Mieterverein was quite like come and go. [Yeah.] Also the the online one was also like iffiness, but there was more like positive notes about that one. [Okay.] Weighing between the pros and cons of them, really the biggest difference was just that one was online and the other one was in person. [Yeah.] And I actually chose the one online, but there's a lot of limitations that you have whenever you have an online platform. They're very particular about how many questions you can ask, the process that it goes through, what you get, and you also are provided two ... if you get the highest tier, you're provided two lawyer-written letters. So I chose them.

Manuel:
[33:05] Even after the issue at hand happened before you joined?

Jae:
[33:09] Yes. Because a lawyer letter is different from going to court and actually getting representation. I cannot get representation, but they can write me a letter. So I went back and forth with like the ... I went back and forth with the the lawyer, and long story short of what he said to me was the general consensus was that I technically could not hold anything against Greg. I could not hold anything because it did happen while we were both there and both of our names are on the contract. So even though this was a problem that I think John was at fault at, I could still be held liable for the situation because I was living in that flat at the time. And even though John sublet his room out, we're both on contract.

Manuel:
[34:08] And so basically the lawyer said: If Greg says you broke something ... or you know, you didn't break anything in this case, but it's similar, right? Like if there was a couch broken and no one admitted to it, you would both be liable. And it's similar to where there's a claim. He clearly wasn't there. He doesn't care which one of you [Exactly.] binge-watched Succession. You're just going to both be liable.

Jae:
[34:37] Yes, that's exactly it. Exactly.

Manuel:
[34:39] All right it makes sense. If I was Greg, I would be happy about that opinion.

Jae:
[34:43] Yeah, it makes ... and I understand it as well. It's annoying, but then ... So I'm trying to talk to John, right, "John this is a problem that we have to solve." John keeps deflecting it, of course, saying, "No, it's a problem that we have with Greg, right? This is an issue that we have with Greg. We like ... you need to not push like ... "

Manuel:
[34:59] "You don't understand. I am ... I have a lawyer now."

Jae:
[35:02] Yes, and even though I had that, John has now ghosted me. John has not responded to any of my messages anymore. [So Berlin!] So Berlin! Even though he's not in Berlin anymore. But now ... so then, so yeah, so that was like the one kind of question I got from the Berlin Tenant Association or the Mieterengel. The reason why I would not choose them is because I actually would have preferred to go in person. And apparently with the Berliner Mieterverein they have like a lot of locations around Berlin. They also, some of them can speak English, so you can make an English appointment. It's cheaper, and I think I will ... because there's actually more sessions that you probably will have with situations than just asking a lawyer one time about things, because ...

Manuel:
[35:52] So you're saying you're regretting your choice of Mieterengel [Yes.] and if you had to do this again you would go to Berliner Mieterverein? [Yes.] Which I think is also the biggest, because it's the only one that I had ever heard of. [Yeah.] I had no idea that there were these online-only ones. [Yes.] But Berliner Mieterverein is super well-known. And I even ... like you see them ... if you're just cycling, you will see their offices.

Jae:
[36:13] Yeah, you do. And yeah, I think if I was ... Because now every time I reach out to the Mieterengel, I have to think, because apparently you're only supposed to have two questions per issue or whatnot. They're very specific, and I can't really have a conversation with them. Like, I'm going to ... Like I'm trying to make an appointment to have a phone call because it's much more detailed, actually, than having the written one because you have follow-up questions, and I'll have to have my partner do it with me and the appointment is only 15 minutes long. Like, so they're very particular about how they do it on the online version. So yeah, I would just recommend that if you are living ... like I guess my lessons that I learned from the situation is that, one, if you are living in a tenant like problem or you're living with other people, get the ... like become a member of a Tenant Association.

Manuel:
[37:10] How much is the cost for like Berliner Mieterverein if you wanted to join? Because you should be joining before shit hits the fan.

Jae:
[37:20] It is around like €9 per month.

Manuel:
[37:23] Ah, that's super cheap.

Jae:
[37:24] So ... but I think you have to pay it annually. Well, you have to be a member for at least two years and you have to pay annually.

Manuel:
[37:33] Two years is, basically, you can't cancel before two years are up. It doesn't mean that they will only help you after two years.

Jae:
[37:41] Yes, exactly. You just can't cancel until ...

Manuel:
[37:42] Okay.

Jae:
[37:43] So, I think you'll be paying like €108 for the Berliner Mieterverein. And the one that I paid was €150 for an attorney.

Manuel:
[37:56] Okay, okay. And yeah, it's €9 a month if you're signing up for the yearly thing. And it's €450 if you are unemployed or Auszubildender, so if you're doing an apprenticeship still, and it's €750 if you're in a shared situation, but if there's like at least ten - yeah, this is a special situation - so it's basically €9 or half if if you're unemployed. [Yeah.] And yeah, I mean, I think ... I don't think I ... So I'm overinsured. Have we done an episode about insurance? I think we have.

Jae:
[38:41] No, we haven't.

Manuel:
[38:42] I think I have done ... have I done a solo episode about insurance?

Jae:
[38:45] I don't think we've gotten real into it. Because it's a big topic that I've been wanting to do.

Manuel:
[38:49] See, we're two years in, we're starting to forget.

Jae:
[38:52] What Insurance Do I Need? Yes, it was a solo one.

Manuel:
[38:55] Yeah, yeah. So, and I forgot what I talked about in that episode.

Jae:
[38:58] You did a lot.

Manuel:
[38:59] I'm pretty, I'm pretty clearly overinsured. Like I have, I have ...

Jae:
[39:04] You have a lot of insurance.

Manuel:
[39:05] More insurance than the average person or any person probably really needs. And I don't have this, and I don't think everybody needs it. [No.] For example, my landlord is very ... it's like a big company, but it's not one of the super big ones and the super evil ones. It's like they're big but they're also quite reasonable and they've always been very approachable and responsive and reasonable in any communication, so I have zero reason to have any doubts or problems. [Yeah.] And so in that case I don't really think you need this. [No.] But if there is some situation where from the beginning there are some questions or red flags, some like, this is a bit of a weird arrangement with subletting or sub-subletting, or maybe the landlord is saying things like: You can't do your Anmeldung on here, or things like that, I would say: One hundred percent, invest the €9. That's less than HBO Max!

Jae:
[40:04] Yes.

Manuel:
[40:05] And you could just BitTorrent Succession, you'll have made that money back!

Jae:
[40:08] Yes. Get a VPN, yo! I think, like for you, no. I think, though, most people listening to this podcast need this insurance because they're expats. They don't know any of the laws here. They don't speak the language. They're most likely going to be coming in a WG situation. They're accepting whatever they can get. They're finding their stuff on Facebook or like WG-Gesucht, or whatnot. And most times you're in a sublet situation where you actually have no protection. There was no protection on your side. Right. So my whole idea is like, get as much protection as you can if you're going to be in those situations, which most people I think will be in those situations. [Amen.] And I just wish that I had that.

Deposits

[40:52] And another thing is, know your ... like know the policies or the laws when it comes to deposits. One, you don't have to pay a deposit in full. You are legally allowed to split your deposit up into three monthly payments. Two, you also can create an own account, or like you can request that there is a shared account where the money is held, so you're not just like at will of the ...

Manuel:
[41:20] Right, it doesn't make that big of a difference. So the thing with deposits is if you pay them directly to the landlord, which in my case, for example, I've done it, the landlord is legally required to invest that money or put it in a savings account that gives the usual interest rate for the market. So I am getting a letter like once or twice a year, which is hilarious, because it says: Okay, your deposit was, I don't know, €950 or whatever it was, and you have earned in the past 12 months, 7 cents of interest. And that's what they're sending me, a letter, where the postage for the letter is higher than that interest! But they're legally required to inform me that this money - which is mine, it's not their money - is in a bank account somewhere and has accrued this interest. So that's what their obligation is. And one thing that you can do instead of giving them the money is you can go to a bank and say: I would like to open an account for this deposit. And it's called ... I'll research the German name, I'll put it in the show notes. But basically, the way that works is you give the money to the bank and it's in your name, but the bank knows that it's a deposit for this landlord and that if the landlord has a claim, they can take out money of that account. The thing that I'm not sure about is how much more protection that gives you, because I think in your case it's not like the bank will take sides and will say: Oh, of course we'll just give you back your money then! Basically if the landlord has a claim, the bank will be like: Hold on, we can't pay this back yet because there's a claim.

Jae:
[43:18] But if the landlord has a claim ... I reached out to this landlord again a few weeks ago. He has done nothing. He has done nothing. Nothing. He has not paid this fine off. He has done nothing.

Manuel:
[43:36] He's just keeping your money.

Jae:
[43:37] He's just keeping my money.

Manuel:
[43:38] Yeah, I don't know what the exact ... See, this is what we should have invited Bill for [Yeah, Bill ...] to clarify from Berliner Mieterverein. But yeah, it is true that maybe in that situation, there's some kind of statute of limitation or something like this, where at some point the bank will be like: Okay, well, they haven't actually presented any evidence. Although I don't know, because these accounts are usually free or extremely cheap. So I don't know how much of a service the bank would give in that ...

Jae:
[44:04] It may not give a lot, but at least I would have some ... Like now I'm just: Wait. Like it goes from me being at the will of this person to at least there being some sort of middleman.

Manuel:
[44:15] And at least Greg couldn't just spend your money. [Yes.] Like you would still see: Hey, it's in this account.

Jae:
[44:23] Exactly.

Manuel:
[44:23] Or you would see Greg took it out of the account. But at this point you don't even know if these €1,000 still even exist. [Exactly.] Greg could have gambled them away.

Jae:
[44:33] And that's ... Like I'm generally on that point. I still am ... As I am having this podcast, I still do not have any proof that the fine was paid. Even if the fine was paid, I still should be getting a remainder back because the fine was €1,600. Our joint deposit is €2,000 in total. I still should be getting something back no matter what. [€200.] Yes. So, like at this point, I still have gotten nothing back.

Manuel:
[44:58] Right.

Jae:
[44:59] And now, like I'm nervous to go to ...

Manuel:
[45:02] I understand your frustration with Greggie-Greg.

Jae:
[45:04] Yes. And now, like, I'm also frustrated with John, but I think like ... Aargh! ... And I think a big ... another lesson I learned is that I was too nice. I was too nice. I was too much: Okay, let's figure it out. Let's let, I'll let y'all go. And I was ... and I was assertive, but I should have been an asshole. And I'm giving everyone this permission. Be a fucking asshole!

Manuel:
[45:25] Nah, come on! Don't be an asshole.

Jae:
[45:26] No, no, no, because this ... it is a psychological trick. I'm not actually going to be an asshole, but I can't even take the step that I need to, because I believe that being assertive equates to being an asshole.

Manuel:
[45:40] What you're saying is, be assertive, know your rights, drop some boundaries, get representation.

Jae:
[45:44] And don't let people push you aside and don't think that you're being the better person by just letting this shit slide, because you're not. And I guarantee, unfortunately they're not looking out for you. They're not. Like I did everything right. I did not have anybody sublet my flat. Like I asked my roommate, John, once, and he said, "No", then I let him do that. I did not tell Greg that he had done that. I did not. I kept my mouth shut. I got legal representation. I asked a lawyer, and I'm still in the same spot that I was in.

Manuel:
[46:21] And it sounds like you've invested way more than a €1,000 worth of time [And energy,] on this matter.

Jae:
[46:26] And frustration. And like it it angers me. Like it legit, like it makes me ... sometimes I woke up just angry at a situation. It's a €1,000. Like, I don't ... I'm not ... like I don't have a lot of money, and it's not like ... I didn't do it as well. I think that was also my frustration. It's like I'm getting ...

Manuel:
[46:43] If you had watched it, it would have been worth it, [Yeah.] because Succession is such a great show, honestly! And I can't believe you haven't watched it.

Jae:
[46:49] No, I haven't. And now, I really don't want to watch it.

Manuel:
[46:52] No, you need to watch it! It's so good!

Jae:
[46:53] It's so tainted of a situation. And, like now I'm looking at all this information of like: Oh it would have been nice to have like a tenant situation, like tenant protection, like legal ... like lawyers knowledge and shit.

Manuel:
[47:08] Lawyer up, my man!

Jae:
[47:10] Yeah, lawyer fucking up! Because yeah, it really is a very unfortunate situation, because €1,000 is a lot of money, a lot of fucking money, especially when you like yeah. So I'm still dealing with it. So actually you just proofread my message that I'm sending to the lawyer that was pretty much saying, "Hey, this person has not actually paid the deal off. What can I do?" And I'm hoping that ... like I'm scared though, because for each problem you only get two questions and I don't know how much of a rule they abide by. But there's a fear that the lawyer is going to say: Sorry, I can't help you with this issue anymore.

Manuel:
[47:51] Let your story be a lesson, everybody.

Jae:
[47:54] Please get insurance and save your ass.