Show Notes
Transcript
Alice
Manuel:
[0:09] Bonjour.
Alice:
[0:10] Bonjour.
Manuel:
[0:11] Ça va?
Alice:
[0:12] Ça va bien.
Manuel:
[0:13] Je m'appelle Manuel.
Jae:
[0:14] Je m'appelle Jae.
Alice:
[0:15] Je m'appelle Alice.
Manuel:
[0:17] Aujourd'hui, c'est en français. You know, I learned French for four years in school. I consider it the biggest failure of my life.
Jae:
[0:29] Today, bien.
Alice:
[0:30] I mean, it's not that bad.
Manuel:
[0:31] Because that's all I can say, after four years of .. .
Alice:
[0:33] But it was a while ago.
Manuel:
[0:35] It was a while ago. [Back then, you were fluent.] Back then I was not ... having it. I was like: You can't force me to learn a language! I'm not doing it!
Alice:
[0:44] See, I love learning German. I'm still really bad at it.
Manuel:
[0:47] You're not. You're actually pretty fluent. Better than me.
Alice:
[0:49] "Pretty fluent!"
Manuel:
[0:51] No you are. Alice, today's guest on Everyone's Moving to Berlin. Alice, do you want to disclose your last name or is that a secret?
Alice:
[0:59] Well it's a secret let's say.
Manuel:
[1:01] Okay, it's a secret.
Alice:
[1:03] It's a German name. I'll just say that.
Manuel:
[1:05] You are the first French person on this show, as far as I remember.
Jae:
[1:09] I think so.
Manuel:
[1:10] Yeah. And tell us about yourself. You're a coder. We work together, like not in the same company, but related.
Jae:
[1:18] Collaborators. [Collaborators.]
Alice:
[1:19] It's true. I'm a developer at Seedlang. So I work on the app. I work on the website. And I'm also a former teacher. So I use a lot of that. But ... Seedlang, by the way, is a language learning app.
Manuel:
[1:33] Yeah, we've had your boss here.
Alice:
[1:35] Oh, yeah, true.
Manuel:
[1:36] He talked about how he ... [We're very interconnected.] ... his crazy entrepreneurial life.
Alice:
[1:42] Yeah, I'm not an entrepreneur, entrepreneuse.
Manuel:
[1:45] Entrepreneuse?
Alice:
[1:46] Yeah. I am an employee. [Oh, oui, oui.] But yeah, because I used to be a teacher, I use a lot - and also I studied linguistics - I use a lot of that in my work when thinking about the design of the app, like the features, etc.
Manuel:
[2:02] A French teacher?
Alice:
[2:03] An English teacher.
Manuel:
[2:04] An English teacher.
Alice:
[2:05] Can't you tell?
Manuel:
[2:06] In like a high school in Paris?
Alice:
[2:09] Exactly. Well, in the suburbs. Like you have to have a lot of points to be in Paris itself. It's a point system in France [A point system!] when you're a teacher. You can't apply to a school. It's like you have a certain number of points depending on where you are in your career, and you're put in a school.
Jae:
[2:27] Oh, it's like a little video game!
Alice:
[2:29] Yeah, except it's your life!
Jae:
[2:30] Yeah!
Alice:
[2:31] For years and years!
Manuel:
[2:32] But you've lived many lives. It seems like you're so young and fresh and you've already had a whole separate career.
Alice:
[2:39] Yeah, just five years of teaching in a high school in the suburbs of Paris. And actually in my high school, so I used to be a student there. Yeah, I never left. And I was like, I am stuck in this life.
Jae:
[2:54] And when did you start developing?
Manuel:
[2:56] Yeah.
Alice:
[2:57] Well, that's a good question. I don't really know exactly. When I was a student I had a math class with some coding, and I loved it. And that's how ... when I discovered it, but then I went years without doing anything with it. And then when I studied linguistics, I studied English, and I was like: I like the science-y aspect of English, not just literature and history and all that, so I thought I could do a lot of coding with linguistics. You do statistics, you can run programs, like to analyze recordings, for example, of voice, so that's when I got more into it. And then when I was an English teacher, I learned Python to teach it, not in English, in French - that's too much, we already don't speak English so we can't do two languages at once - but yeah I changed career within being a teacher. I moved from English to computer science. But I guess that's not so weird in Germany because they all do two ...
Manuel:
[3:59] Yeah, two subjects. But you decide from the get-go, I think. You have to decide in your studies, kind of: I'm going to be an English and history teacher. [Yeah.] And you don't really switch once you're in the group.
Alice:
[4:10] That's so interesting to me.
Manuel:
[4:11] And were you a nerd and like a coder in high school already? Like I was ... for example, we had one computer room. And the computers there had a program where the teacher could see everybody's screen, and you were like sandboxed, you couldn't get out of it. You could only do what the teacher asked you to do. But me and my friend found a hack to get out of the program. You had to go through the help menu and then do something weird, and then there was a way to get out of it and get to a real web browser. And I was that kind of person.
Alice:
[4:44] That's the typical stories you hear from developers who talk about how they learned on their TI calculators. But no, I wasn't like that at all. I wasn't very nerdy. I always had a computer, but I liked going on the internet and like downloading illegal things - and then receiving letters about how I downloaded things. [Oh no! In France or Germany?] Yes, in France. [Wow.]
Manuel:
[5:07] "Today's sponsor is VPN! [VPN!]
Alice:
[5:10] Yeah, exactly. But no, I never coded, like very young. Only when I was 18, I think, I started it.
Manuel:
[5:17] Okay, well, that's pretty young.
Alice:
[5:18] I don't have an origin story and I'll never be like the perfect developer where I match all the traits of like the genius developer. My thing is more like I have several backgrounds and I like to mix them together.
Jae:
[5:33] But that's like the beauty of being like, I would call that art. That's the beauty of being like an artist or just like anyone who has multiple talents. You find ways to nurture all of your talents in some type of way, which is still an origin story. [Yeah.] I think all of those things do come together to make who you are today.
Manuel:
[5:51] Most coders probably haven't been teachers, language teachers, before they became coders. And so it is kind of your perfect origin story for what you're doing now with Seedlang and also with Easy Languages.
Alice:
[6:02] Yeah. And I think a lot of people, if they want to, they can mix another background with computer science. Because I did a master's degree in linguistics and computer science. So I didn't have to do a boot camp or even - what comes before a master's degree? - a bachelor's, yeah, so after ... when I was a teacher I already had a master's degree in English and I just decided to do another master's in computer science. And there are ... like if you studied biology or even literature, there are, in France at least, a master's degree with computer science and something else, which is really cool.
Coding
Manuel:
[6:40] How long would it take me, as someone who's nerdy and knows his way around a computer but doesn't know coding, to get to your level of: I can build an app?
Alice:
[6:56] It's very hard to tell. Like, there are so many different technologies. And, I mean, for me, I came into this work ... I wasn't a full-stack developer before, so it also really depends on your employer and what they're willing to like have you learn on the job. When I studied computer science and linguistics, I studied mostly artificial intelligence and like all these ChatGPT things, so I wasn't building apps. I mean, I was trying to get it into my projects because I didn't like having just this very academic code where no one could use it. And you would like to show your friends something like: Oh, I made something super cool. It's just like a terminal with like letters, it doesn't look cool at all!
Jae:
[7:40] Trust me, it's really cool!
Alice:
[7:44] It is cool! But yeah, I always was interested in having an interface. And now I also get to work on the front end. So I always work on both. I mean, that's what full stack is.
Manuel:
[7:55] Full stack.
Jae:
[7:56] And what brought you to Berlin then?
Manuel:
[7:59] Yeah, I was going to say like, that was the intro.
Moving from Paris to Berlin
[8:02] Now, given the title of this podcast, what brought a French lady to Berlin?
Alice:
[8:08] Good question. I was mostly fleeing Paris ... because I'm searched! No! I'm sure! Paris is just very crowded and expensive and I think it it takes you a while to realize ... Like I think it happens to everybody around their 30s. They live in Paris in their 20s they're like: Oh my God, it's so exciting! And then all of my friends, we get to 30, and with the pandemic - that didn't help - and we realize: Wow, we are paying so much, we're sacrificing so much of our lives because we can't go that much on holidays, because everything's going in our rent.
Manuel:
[8:43] How much is a typical 60-square-meter apartment that's more or less in the center of Paris?
Alice:
[8:50] I've never seen one of these!
Manuel:
[8:52] Oh, they don't exist? [They don't even exist!]
Alice:
[8:54] So I think like ... For 30-square-meters, you would pay €1,000. [Ooh, la la!] And as a teacher, you don't have a huge salary. It's not like in Germany. It's much lower.
Manuel:
[9:09] Really? But teachers don't have good salaries in Germany.
Alice:
[9:12] Well, I don't have the stats in my head right now. But for a teacher, I had a very high salary because I was doing way too much, which is why I burned out later on. I had a lot of bonuses. And I was in a 21-square-meter room in the middle of Paris, in a super fancy area.
Jae:
[9:32] For how much?
Alice:
[9:33] For €800.
Manuel:
[9:35] Oh, that's pretty good. I mean, it's small.
Jae:
[9:37] 20-square-meters for €800?
Manuel:
[9:38] Well, 20 is not good. 20-square-meters is not good, but €800 is good.
Jae:
[9:42] Yeah.
Manuel:
[9:43] Well, you were like: This is not good for me.
Alice:
[9:48] Yeah. And especially because the city itself, obviously it's beautiful. And like, you know, all these beautiful little streets, they have a lot of charm. But when you live there ...
Jae:
[9:58] It's a different story.
Alice:
[9:59] It's very stressful. A lot of people who are just stressed everywhere, the transports it's so crowded. I think in Berlin it's very rare that basically like you have people touching you on all sides [Yeah.] in the metro [Yeah.] and in Paris it's every day and it was so stressful. And you when you go home you're still so proud. Like it's still so tiny. So I never got a break. I was exhausted and I was like: Why am I sacrificing so much to be here? I'm just so stressed and everybody ... it's smelly and everybody's touching me all the time! [Wow, you're really selling Paris!]
Jae:
[10:35] So was like Berlin for you like an alternative ... like something that was ... Because in my head Paris and Berlin aren't necessarily similar, but I can understand why people go between these two. Was that something that attracted you to Berlin or like how did you choose Berlin as the place to flee?
Alice:
[10:55] So at first I was looking into other French cities is because I didn't really have an idea. I was just like: I need to leave Paris. But I didn't have any specific place that was calling me. And I've only lived in big cities. I lived in Paris, Edinburgh and Lyon. And so I wanted to live in a big city because I don't know ... I can't drive, I don't know how not to live in a city. And so I think ... the weird thing is, I started learning German because I was interested in education technology. And so I wanted to try a bunch of different apps, maybe to find work at an app, a language-learning app. And so I thought I should try a language that I've never learned before and that is different from mine, so I can retry from the beginning. And so I thought: Well, I'll try German, because most apps have German. And that's how I started learning German. And then, yeah, thinking about going to Berlin. [Wow.] [I like that.]
Manuel:
[11:58] I mean, France doesn't have ... Like Germany does ... is like - how do I say this? - like Germany has more bigger cities, I think, than France, right? Like France, basically, if you want to be in a big city you go to Paris, and yeah, there's Lyon and maybe a few others, but nothing really compares to Paris and I think that's where all of the economy basically happens. And in Germany there's actually ... there's the Ruhrgebiet with Essen and Dortmund and stuff, and there's obviously Cologne and Munich and Hamburg and Stuttgart, and all of these cities have companies and an economy, and Berlin is actually ironically the city that doesn't have much of an economy. Like I think we're costing Germany more than we're giving it in terms of economic output, but that's different in France. Like I could imagine if you don't like it in Paris, there's not that many options for you.
Alice:
[12:52] Yeah, it's really like the economic and political center, and also like all the media is there, so many things are there. And so many people they can't really live anywhere else because if you work in like audio visual or TV or anything like linked to theater, I don't know, like it's so much more convenient. Everybody else is going to be there, so ... and so many companies are still there or sometimes in the suburbs, because you have to remember that Paris is really small. It's like a tenth of Berlin. [Oh, you mean in terms of the area?] Yeah, of the area. And like there's a road right around Paris that separates it from the suburbs, which kind of prevents it from growing. Of course there are a lot of people in the suburbs, but still, in Paris you can ... Like there's so much space it feels like the city can grow. [In Berlin, you mean?] Yeah, oh yeah, in Berlin, sorry. So you can still build accommodation, there's parks, the streets are just so big here, and the pavements, it's just crazy to me! When I arrived I was like: Where is is everyone? And where is everything? ["Where did everybody go?"] Yeah, because I'm just ... yeah, I'm just so used ... it's so crowded that I had to walk on the the road all the time and ...
Manuel:
[14:05] Fewer tourists too, I imagine. [Yeah.] There is ... Everybody who does a ... I mean, if you're an American you do a Europe trip, you are not going to skip Paris. You might skip Berlin though.
Jae:
[14:15] Yeah I don't even recommend people go to Berlin because Berlin is for a certain demographic. But definitely, Paris is always like on the top of the list. [Yeah.]
Alice:
[14:26] Yeah, it's just very pretty, so.
The Move to Berlin
Manuel:
[14:29] What else were your first impressions when you came to Berlin? Like explain, like tell us ... So basically what did you do? You quit your job, you quit your apartment, terminated your apartment ...
Alice:
[14:41] I did do a master's degree, so I was ... Yeah, I quit my job, finished my master's degree, and then I got an internship at Seedlang. And so I came here in January. And I arrived, and of course my first impression was that it's very dark here! [Don't come in the winter!] But if you come in the winter, come in January, not in like November. [Yeah.] That's the worst, I think. [Yeah.] So it was very dark. There's a lot less light than in Paris, and a lot less people, and so ...
Manuel:
[15:13] Less artificial light?
Alice:
[15:15] Yeah, exactly. There's just more space, I guess, between the lights. So sometimes I was like ... Google Maps was telling me like: Walk in these streets, and I was like: I'm never walking in that street! I think because there are also fewer shops, that's also less light, [Yeah.] And there's just ... sometimes there's just no one it's like a big street and I should just see no one. I'm like: I don't know. Now I never think about it. I'm so used to it. And I love it, actually, that I don't have to like go around the crowd on the pavement all the time. [Mm-hmm.]
Manuel:
[15:46] Okay, so you got here you were like: Okay, there's no light, there's no people, and how did you find your apartment? This podcast by the way - maybe we should have explained - is for people who might do what you did, and so we want to hear all the details. Like how did you find an apartment? How did you find the job? All of it.
Alice:
[16:03] Yeah, okay. So to find the job I just added Jeremy on LinkedIn.
Manuel:
[16:08] Okay, everybody! Go to LinkedIn.com! [Add Jeremy!]
Alice:
[16:10] Add Jeremy! Yes, I don't think that's a very interesting part of it, so it was very specific to me. But then to find the flat, then it was just like everybody, WG Gesucht, messaging everybody. Very few people on WG Gesucht will want to do an online call. I did get a few, but in the end I had to take a short-term sublet. So it was like six weeks, I think. And I thought that'll leave me time to find something more long-term. And I think it took me two days. Yeah, I did like two visits, I did. And I found a WG. That was really nice.
Manuel:
[16:50] That's what we always recommend. Basically start with something super temporary, and then maybe a WG, at least at first, is easier than finding an apartment, especially if you don't have a job yet and everything. And also if someone is eager to show you the place online and do it all online, be on high scam alert. Because not only do legitimate people not want to do that, illegitimate people will want to do that. Because you might get scammed.
Jae:
[17:18] Yes. Even in addition to just getting scammed, the place might not be as clean or whatnot on video or like in person as it is on video. You don't see all of the dirt and stuff on a FaceTime call.
Alice:
[17:33] It's so hard. But I stayed a year in a WG and I don't like living in the WG. I mean, I had nice flatmates, though, it was good, but I just love being alone and like leaving a mess in the kitchen. Because when it's not my mess, I get angry. When it's my mess, no problem!
Manuel:
[17:52] And how did you find your permanent apartment? Because that's the tricky part for most people.
Finding an Apartment
Alice:[17:56] ImmoScout. Yeah, I just was always on it. Like set filters, and have the notifications, and pay for it. You got to pay for the subscription, which lets you have like... It's nice because it makes this little folder with all your papers. It does it in German. And then you can just send it automatically very quickly. And then I just did ... I think it took me four months. I must have done like around 30 visits, I think. And then I started to get desperate, so I definitely lowered my expectations. At first I wanted like two rooms. And then I thought: Okay, it's okay if it's one room. It's like, if it's a nice room. If it's really nice, I'll go down to one room. And then I just started writing very specific messages, personal messages, about why this flat, I loved it. And after four months, there was one day where I got three offers.
Jae:
[18:56] Oh, wow!
Alice:
[18:57] This comes from lowering my expectations. I think maybe I became the best candidate, [Message writer.] but also candidate because I [Oh, in terms of the income and stuff because you lowered your expectations.] Yeah, and then I just so one I just loved it so much so I wrote them a message about how I thought it was so beautiful and I would love to live there, and so I got it!
Manuel:
[19:17] And so do you think these personal messages make a difference? It depends on the landlord a bit, maybe.
Alice:
[19:23] Exactly. If it's an agency, I don't think they really care. [Yeah.] But mine was directly with the landlord. [Oh, that's good.] Yeah.
Jae:
[19:32] It's nicer when it's directly, because you you can build a personal relationship with them.
Alice:
[19:36] Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think they made my flat, like it's like an architect's ... It's a small flat, but you really see that they wanted to do something nice. And so by saying I liked it, like it was like: Oh yeah, she liked the flat that I made.
Manuel:
[19:51] She can tell, she can see the work that you did.
Alice:
[19:53] Exactly.
Jae:
[19:54] That's good, yeah.
Manuel:
[19:56] Okay, and then the job, I guess, just the internship converted into a job for you, so ...
Alice:
[20:05] Exactly. But yeah, I haven't had to search on that front. Hopefully I won't have to.
Finding a Job as a Coder
[20:09] If you had to, or maybe just like knowing ... because I know there's so many coders, developers - what's the best term? [Developers.] - developers come to Berlin, what would you tell them? Like what do you do in in terms of finding a job in Berlin? Would you just message CEOs on LinkedIn as the main ... ?
Alice:
[20:33] That's a great question. So I haven't had to do it, but I'm guessing networking would be a good thing. And it's always great also when you're coming into the city and you want to meet people, like go on meetup, find something that matches your interests and your personality. Actually, at an Easy German meetup I heard about the Unicorns in Tech - that's for LGBT people in tech - and so I'd love to go. I haven't had the chance to go yet, but that seems very interesting. And like some groups are very well organized and they create a lot of different events that seem really cool, so ...
Manuel:
[21:08] Yeah, yeah, and there's so many meetups, especially in the tech sector on meetup.com [Yeah.] that you can go to.
Alice:
[21:14] You can eat for free every day!
Manuel:
[21:16] Really?
Alice:
[21:17] Yeah, that's free food!
Jae:
[21:19] Okay, if you're on a budget.
Alice:
[21:22] Yeah, because I think companies like to host these and to show how great of an employer they are. They'll just have more or less good free food like pizza and stuff.
Jae:
[21:32] Speaking of tech in Berlin - and I know you already have a job - but like how is the tech market in Berlin? Like is it very tough right now? Is it very good? Do you know a lot of people in it?
Alice:
[21:47] I do not know a lot of people in it. Yeah I only know ... yeah I know ..., I guess my friend circle there what they have in common, is being French and not being developers. I don't know a lot of of people in tech. I think it depends on the job. I guess I'll discover - well, hopefully I don't discover - but if I have to search for a job, I know that for things that are less technical, like UX, UI design, it seems to be a tough market, but maybe for developers, less so.
Manuel:
[22:19] Yeah, I think so too.
French People
[22:20] Okay, speaking of French people, this is how we initially ... because we were chatting privately, and we were talking about the fact that there's so many French people in Berlin, but you never see them. This is, I think I'm directly quoting you, "So where are all the French people?"Alice:
[22:37] Well, I see them everywhere, but you don't see them at the Easy German meetups, because they're not learning German! That is why!
Manuel:
[22:44] Is that really true?
Alice:
[22:46] I think there are like two types of French people. I'm exaggerating here, but there are the French-German. So they already speak German because one of their parents is German, so they're like Franco-German. So good for them! I'm very jealous of those people! And then there are a lot who don't seem to learn, or not so much, because we meet so many French people and it's like I have a ... a lot of us have a radar and we just hear them. And actually like in my building I have like three French neighbors, I think, and we just find each other. I mean we don't try to, I think. That's not my objective, but it's also much easier. And when your whole life, you're like constantly a little lost because everything is not in your language, and I mean, obviously, France and Germany are very similar, but still you're not home. [Yeah.] So it feels really good to ...
Jae:
[23:40] Like have someone to connect with and understands your struggles and [Yeah.] like kind of can help ease the challenges that a city like Berlin can bring.
Alice:
[23:51] Yeah, forget for a little moment[Yeah.] that you're not in your home. And I think I had very like bad preconceived ideas about people who did that ,who lived abroad and then they just hang out with French people, and I didn't try to do that but I also didn't try to be like: I only want German friends. Because I think that's a little bit like fetishizing German people, you know, like every ... I don't care about the nationality of my friends I'll take any [Yeah.] nationality. It just happened that I met a group of very welcoming French people through a colleague of mine, and it was was such a weird experience, actually, because I think from being abroad they are much more open to having new friends because they know that it can be lonely when you arrive in town and you don't know anyone. But in France I never had like a group of friends like from ... for they've been friends for so many years, and in France they'll never be like: Oh, join our friend group immediately!
Jae:
[24:50] Really? That's really nice, because Berlin can definitely be a city where you can get that, but you can also feel very isolated and very like alone here and stuff. So it was really nice whenever you're able to find people who will open you in, especially if they have like history and stuff together. And would you say that you stuck with this like friend group or have you been able to meet even other French people as well?
Alice:
[25:16] Well, I think we all bring more French people into the friend group.
Jae:
[25:21] "Look who I found today!"
Alice:
[25:22] Yeah, so we'll, from time to time. bring in new French people so the group can grow that way. But also, yeah, I do like meet them. Have I met a lot more French people outside of this group? I also have like friends of friends who moved to Berlin. And then like I'm also their friend because I want them to be welcomed here, so I hang out with them too. So then just French people ...
Manuel:
[25:51] But then you all speak French, I imagine. So there's no Germans allowed in this when you hang out.
Alice:
[25:57] Well, there are no Germans, but they're allowed. [If they only learn French!] Yeah, if they're Franco-German, we'll have them! But weirdly, none of my French friends are dating a French person. So apparently that's our limit. We hang out together, but we don't date each other. This is based on like 10 people.
Jae:
[26:18] Everyone. [Do they date Germans or do they date other foreigners?]
Alice:
[26:21] Other foreigners. Well, in my group. [Not Germans.] Or Franco-Germans. And so we speak English when all significant others are here. Yeah, like my partner is American, but they speak French.
Jae:
[26:38] Oh, okay.
Manuel:
[26:40] So here's a little pop quiz. How many French people do you think are there in Berlin? I'll give you some reference numbers. There's 100,000 ... These are rough numbers, and I'll put the source in the show notes. It might not be super accurate, but I think it's ballpark accurate. There's 100,000 Turkish people in Berlin. That's the largest community. 47,000 Polish people. And, yeah, I won't tell you any more numbers. How many French people do you think?
Alice:
[27:10] I've looked at these stats before, and I love trivia. I shouldn't say that before I answer. But I was surprised that it was so low, because for me, they're everywhere. 17,000?
Manuel:
[27:22] This says 15,000.
Jae:
[27:23] Oh, wow!
Manuel:
[27:24] Something like that, yeah.
Alice:
[27:25] I like looking at these things.
Manuel:
[27:27] Yeah, it's ... I mean, how many people live in Berlin? Three and a half million? Something like that? So 15,000 doesn't actually seem that much, given that it's, I mean ...
Alice:
[27:36] Yeah, and in the ranking, like I remember it was quite low. I thought it would be like one of the 10.
Manuel:
[27:42] There's 20,000 from Italy, 19,000 from Serbia, 17,500 from Russia, 16,000 from Bulgaria.
Jae:
[27:51] How many Americans?
Manuel:
[27:53] 14.5. [14.5?]
Alice:
[27:56] Oh, we're similar.
Manuel:
[27:57] So fewer Americans than French, which to me, it feels like there's Americans everywhere. [Mm-hmm.]
Manuel:
[28:00] But it's probably what your ears. are attuned to. Like I can spot two Americans speaking loudly on the street or in the café.
Jae:
[28:09] "Oh my gosh, I really love this tea, it's so good!"
Manuel:
[28:16] "The rents in Prenzlauer Berg are so high!"
Alice:
[28:18] Well there are a lot of French people in Prenzlauer Berg! And I think you would notice a French accent if you heard it.
Manuel:
[28:24] But do they speak quietly?
Alice:
[28:26] Ah yeah, probably, yeah.
Jae:
[28:29] Sometimes I can and pick it up and I'm like: Ooh! Ooh, la la! I really like the French accent. I lived there for five months in 2018 in Cannes. [Ooh, fancy!] Yes, so that was like that's like my, second ... Like if I could live in like a different country that wasn't Germany, I would choose France.
Alice:
[28:52] Yeah that's a good choice, but avoid Paris maybe.
Jae:
[28:56] I know but that's the thing like if there was a Berlin in France, then maybe. Like, Marseille sounds cool, but they're not LGBT friendly. So, I can't.
Alice:
[29:05] What? I'm sure they are. I mean, I don't know Marseille very well. I'm going on holiday soon [Yeah.] and I'm sure there's an LGBT community in Marseille. I mean, I've heard of it, even. So, a lot of people are moving there.
Manuel:
[29:17] They just speak really quietly!
Alice:
[29:19] In Marseille, they are not famous for speaking quietly!
Manuel:
[29:22] Oh, they're not?
Alice:
[29:23] No, you know, it's the South. I don't want to say too many bad things about Marseille. I mean, it's not a bad thing, but you know, as a Parisian ... A lot of French people despise Parisians so I should ... I try not to say too many things [Because they're a bit snobbish, they think they're the best!] They're horrible, yeah, we're horrible! I totally understand. And when I was in Paris I mostly met people from Paris, so I wasn't confronted with this so much. And now that I'm in Berlin, all the French people I meet they're usually not from Paris, and so I'm mostly a little bit ashamed, when they ask me where I'm from: "Paris, sorry." [Paris, yeah!]
Manuel:
[30:00] "She thinks she's so great!" Okay, what else? These were the main topics that we had in mind for you. What's the bottom line on the French people? Is there ... ?
Alice:
[30:13] They're wonderful. They're better here than in France!
Jae:
[30:16] They are they really are. I do ... Like every French person I meet - they're mostly gay - but like everyone that I meet they're ... I really love them.
Manuel:
[30:24] All the French people are mostly gay? Or the people that you meet? [No, the people that I meet are mostly the French gays ...
Alice:
[30:30] I meet a lot of gay people and ... what a coincidence!
Jae:
[30:34] But yeah, I think I really do love that. And I guess a good question, I mean, what this came up to was just community with your nationality. And I mean, you already talked mostly about that, but do you feel like for any person coming into the city ... you said that you first didn't want necessarily to meet a whole bunch of people from your country, but now you did, it's really cool. Do you recommend people doing that? Because I did not do that. Like I still have not really met any Americans here. And part of me kind of is like: Should I try to go reach out to other Americans or whatnot? So, yeah, I'm genuinely curious.
Alice:
[31:15] I mean, if you feel good not knowing any Americans, I don't think you need to do it. It was kind of random for me and it was a happy accident, so ...
Jae:
[31:25] Yeah. I feel kind of lonely sometimes because there's people ... like there's reference ... there's pop culture references, there's music there's like just things that I don't get from other people that makes me wish that I had like at least a community of people who were having similar backgrounds and stuff.
Alice:
[31:44] Yeah, when I'm with my my French friends, we like, we would listen to music or just, yeah, we have all the same references. We don't have to explain a lot of things. And also, we are very, I think we're "Frencher" than when we're in France! Like, when I met my friends, I met them in a crêperie.
Manuel:
[32:04] Of course.
Alice:
[32:05] And then the second time I saw them, we did a raclette, which is Swiss, I know, but still, we do it a lot in France. So, it was, yeah, a lot of crêpes, raclette, wine, yeah, and just we do more French things than we would do in France.
Alice:
[32:19] That's hilarious.
Jae:
[32:21] I guess it is a thing of like when you do leave your country, you kind of want to represent it, or in a way, and still feel that you're kind of still a part of it. And if anything, it's like you want to wrap it more that you're there but then when you're there, like: Aargh, you just throw it aside!
Alice:
[32:38] Yeah, when you actually go back to your country you're like: Oh, I hate all of them, but when you're outside of it, you're like: Wow! France is great!
Jae:
[32:48] Yes. And my last question to you was, do you ever feel like homesick? Or do you think that having this community has really made you feel not that like longing to have to go back and visit all the time?
Alice:
[33:05] Yeah, I don't think I feel homesick because I do go often. I mean, we are neighbors, so it's quite easy. Actually, I'm going on Saturday, hopefully, if there's no strike.
Jae:
[33:17] No strike, yeah.
Alice:
[33:18] And so, just two trains, or one train if you go at night. And because my home is Paris itself, I always have a bit of dread of going there because it's going to be stressful. So, I don't want to visit that often. But I mean, I'm happy to see my family, but if my family wasn't there, I don't know if I would go that much. But I am going on holiday in the south of France, and I'm very excited about that. Like the places where I used to go when I was a child and I can show my partner.
Jae:
[33:49] Aah, that's really cute. I like that.
European Elections
Manuel:[33:52] Do you have any other learnings or tips for people who just moved here or are planning to move here? Anything you learned about bureaucracy, German bureaucracy?
Alice:
[34:03] Luckily, as a European, I don't have to go to them that much. Oh! I learned something. Very recently, I got a letter from Berlin, some Amt, telling me that I can vote for the European elections in Germany.
Manuel:
[34:17] Yeah, I learned about that, too. If you're an EU member, you can vote independent of where you live, and you can decide whether you want to take part in the German EU elections or the French EU elections.
Alice:
[34:30] Exactly, exactly. So I'm excited to ... I just have to fill a form - of course! - and then take it to ...
Manuel:
[34:35] Fax it over!
Alice:
[34:37] I Can take it myself with my hands, which I think I'm going to do that, because I never have stamps, so I think it's going to be simpler to just walk in the Amt and it'll be a fun exercise to speak German to them. So yeah, you just have to fill this form,, bring it and then you can vote in Germany instead of your home country, I mean, choose whichever you prefer depending on the political situation of your home country and Germany - but I think it would be a cool thing to do. Because I thought it would be ridiculous if I vote at the European elections in France when I live in Europe and I'm in Germany, so I think it makes more sense in my my head that I'm voting here. [Yeah, yeah. Yeah.]
Jae:
[35:19] Well for all EU members out there, don't forget to vote!
Alice:
[35:23] Yeah, you have until May. I don't remember of the exact date, but you have until May to bring this form, and the election is in early June, yeah. [Okay.]
Jae:
[35:34] You procrastinators, we're talking to you! You have until May!