Transcript

Our Guest: Jack Burke

Manuel:
[0:08] Jack Burke.

Jack:
[0:09] Hello.

Jae:
[0:11] Howdy.

Manuel:
[0:12] My very old friend, since ...

Jack:
[0:15] Yeah.

Jae:
[0:16] Very old?

Manuel:
[0:17] Since childhood.

Jack:
[0:17] I mean, I'm not old.

Manuel:
[0:18] Since your childhood.

Jack:
[0:19] Unbelievably young-looking friend.

Manuel:
[0:23] When we first met, you were still a child.

Jack:
[0:27] Literally.

Manuel:
[0:28] You were like 18.

Jack:
[0:29] 21. No. We met when I was ... I think I moved to ... No. Oh, yeah. No, I would have been 21.

Manuel:
[0:36] And you moved to Berlin ... I don't know if we talked about this, because you've been on the show before. I don't know if we discussed this.

Jack:
[0:42] I'm a veteran.

Manuel:
[0:43] It's been a while. You moved to Berlin in 2012 because the UK kicked you out.

Jack:
[0:49] Genau. I had a two-year visa for the UK, which was - at the time, I thought - amazing. I was like: Oh my God, I want to be here forever! And then they said no. And so I moved to Berlin, because you didn't have to organize a visa before. You could just ...

Jae:
[1:07] That is the good thing about it.

Jack:
[1:08] Rock up and then be like: Hey, I need to stay here! And then work was like: Ah, you're moving to Berlin? We could give you a job there. I was like: Ah, okay, that's good. And then that didn't happen for like six months or more. So I was like semi-illegally here because I didn't have a stamp in my passport leaving the UK. Well, they had no way of knowing when I left the UK, so I didn't apply for my visa here until much later than I probably should have. Maybe. I don't know.

Jae:
[1:43] I don't either.

Jack:
[1:43] Don't hold me to this, anyone!

Manuel:
[1:46] Your life has a way of just like working out.

Jack:
[1:49] Working out. Yeah, if you don't make plans, I mean, yeah, plans that I make don't happen.

Manuel:
[1:55] And what's that lovely accent from?

Jack:
[2:00] That's from the far north coast of New South Wales, which is ... [Australia.] Of Australia.

Jae:
[2:05] Okay.

Jack:
[2:06] Which is in Australia. And it's called the far north coast and it's literally in the middle. It's not north!

Jae:
[2:12] It's not far!

Jack:
[2:13] It's not far! It's not north! It's the most easterly point of Australia.

Manuel:
[2:18] And do you miss home?

Jack:
[2:20] No. Nope. But it's very pretty there. And the ... No, I don't.

Manuel:
[2:27] What do you not miss about it?.

Jack:
[2:29] I just ... I mean I didn't ... I don't click with the vibe, I suppose. I feel like it was a nice place to grow up, very pretty, very tasty, the people are nice, but not for me. But that's okay, they can be for them.

Manuel:
[2:52] And why do you vibe with Berlin? What's what's kept you here for over 10 years at this point?

Jack:
[2:58] Honestly, at this point, right this second, I don't know! [You seem to be gone a lot you try ... ] I am ... I'm doing my best! I mean, I don't know, there was like the honeymoon phase of Berlin, Öster ... Berlin ... I mean, what did I say? [The honeymoon.] Berlin, Germany is a little bit over at the moment, but we're gonna make it work.

Manuel:
[3:25] You mean in general? Or just with you, personally?

Jack:
[3:26] In general. With me.

Manuel:
[3:28] Like is Berlin becoming out of fashion?

Jack:
[3:30] No, no. I think it's me. I'm not one of these ... like oh you know ... I think we develop, and then ... Like it's so different now it's not what it once was, but that was because I also am not what I once was.

Jae:
[3:42] That's true too. So you're becoming more different for Berlin? Yeah.

Jack:
[3:47] I don't know. This is like a therapy session! I hadn't prepared!

Manuel:
[3:53] And how do you feel?

Jack:
[3:55] "Why do you think that you feel that way?" Probably trauma.

Jae:
[3:59] Trauma.

Jack:
[4:00] And something that my parents didn't do while I was young.

Manuel:
[4:04] Well, that's our job, to give you the reasons why you became that way.

Jack:
[4:08] That's your parents. I'm like: Most of it is.

Learning German

Manuel:
[4:11] Also, still not our main topic, but how did you learn German?

Jack:
[4:16] When did I learn German?

Manuel:
[4:17] When and how?

Jack:
[4:18] That's a great question. When? When have I learned German?

Manuel:
[4:22] Because I think ...

Jack:
[4:24] When was the learning of the German that you're talking about? Because my German is still unbelievably horrible.

Manuel:
[4:32] I don't think so. That's the thing. You kept telling me this, even five years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, when we still worked together. And you kept insisting that you don't actually speak German. [I don't.] But then I would hear you speak to customers - because we worked together in retail - and I'd be like: Holy shit, he speaks German! I never knew.

Jack:
[4:50] I mean, it's also been a long time since I spoke to a customer, but I can consume German very easily. I love German podcasts. Some of them are interesting. Some of them make me very angry. But like German news, that kind of thing ... Producing German is not really my thing. I feel like on the phone I can do it when I'm not talking ... when I can't see the person being like: What? What? What are you saying? So on the phone like I can sort out my phone contract and random random shit like that.

Manuel:
[5:26] But what what would you say to all the people who really stress themselves out about learning German because they've already been here for a year or two and haven't gotten around to ...

Jack:
[5:38] I would say, don't stress, in general.

Manuel:
[5:41] In life.

Jack:
[5:42] In general, don't stress. It's really all right, especially not speaking German here. You can get by.

Jae:
[5:50] But it's hard on the phone though. On the phone when you're talking to the phone people.

Jack:
[5:54] I like the phone. The phone for me is good.

Jae:
[5:57] I try, and they hang up on me. [I think subconsciously it's there. Really?] Yes, because they have to ... they have to get someone else to call me back. [Oh wow! Okay i've never done that.]

Jack:
[6:08] It's fun as long as long as it ... like the first thing you say is like: "I'm really sorry, my German's really bad," they are like quite ...

Jae:
[6:13] For the most part yes. [ ... They're quite understanding.] They always ... it is like ... Manuel, is this a thing? That whenever you ask someone if they speak English, it is like a script that they always say, "A little." Every single person I've ever asked, "Do you speak any English?" They always say, "A little."

Manuel:
[6:34] Yeah, I mean, we just talked about this on the Easy German podcast, about how Germans are very humble about their English skills. And they always say, "My English is not that great." And then they continue to actually ... [Make normal conversation!]

Jack:
[6:52] Speak better English than myself!

Manuel:
[6:54] But I think it's ... yeah. So the one thing that I brought up is like we love to laugh about Germans who don't speak that well or who have an accent, which obviously, as was then pointed out to me, is kind of mean and kind of ... [Germans are mean!] you shouldn't do it. But I just want to play you ... this is our Minister of Finance, Christian Lindner. [Oh God!] [10-second silence to watch video] "Two tousand twuelf."

Jack:
[7:34] Oh my God! Is he doing a skit?

Manuel:
[7:37] No, he's giving an interview.

Jack:
[7:38] It sounds like SNL.

Manuel:
[7:39] "A tiyerd maen." Ufter ay shoht nayt." [8-second silence to watch video] "A vake-up coll."

Jack:
[7:52] Oh my God, it's so painful! [4-second silence to watch video]

Manuel:
[7:57] [That accent!] ["You get zat cahffee?"]

Jack:
[8:01] Which means, "Stghuctural gheforms!"

Manuel:
[8:03] Yeah, and it's hilarious ...

Jack:
[8:05] He sounds like a Bond villain!

Manuel:
[8:06] He kind of is. He kind of is, and that's what's funny about it because he's so full of himself. He's so arrogant. He thinks he's this shit. And in every interview ... And he is smart, and he can talk, but then in English, he has this thick accent and it's just a clash, and it just makes it hilarious.

Jack:
[8:29] I mean, I feel like Germans also rip each other to shreds when they get emails or see other people writing in German. They're like: Oh my God, I can't believe they put a comma there; that is just like ...what an idiot! And I'm like: Guys, settle down! [True.] But so it's not ... I don't think it's only at ... like I don't feel like they're rough on the foreigners. They're also unbelievably rough on each other.

Jae:
[8:59] Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, that's why ... [Does that make it better?] Like so that I'm like: You're so mean. But they're like: We're mean to everyone. Yeah.

Manuel:
[9:06] And that's why we have to preface why my English isn't that great. [Yeah.] Because if you do have this accent then ...

Jack:
[9:12] Some ... a German person recently taught me the difference between transparent and translucent. Do you know the difference?

Jae:
[9:21] Translucent is like reflective, and transparent is like see-through?

Manuel:
[9:29] Can I try? Translucent lets the light through, and transparent you can see through.

Jack:
[9:32] Yeah, I think ...

Jae:
[9:33] It's all on the boys, the superheroes!

Manuel:
[9:35] Because it has the word, luce, right in it which means light.

Jack:
[9:38] But like the question is like: is this nail ... is it transparent or is it translucent?

Manuel:
[9:43] Jack's holding up his very long blue nail.

Jack:
[9:46] Yeah.

Manuel:
[9:46] It is ... Well, that's the thing. It's not black-and-white because it's like, I can kind of see you through it. [Exactly.] But not really.

Jack:
[9:52] Exactly. Because I've been describing them as transparent, which she was not so keen on. She was like, "Well actually, I think they're translucent." And I was like, "I don't know what the difference is!" And I looked it up, and I feel like this is transparent, but because of the curve you can't like fully read through it, you know, and it's blue.

Manuel:
[10:17] It breaks the light.

Jack:
[10:18] Exactly

Jae:
[10:20] It's like, translucent is like semi.

Jack:
[10:21] Yeah translucent is like frosted glass. [Yes.] Kind of.

Manuel:
[10:25] I have the best ... I have a recommendation for the best online dictionary: it's vocabulary.com. Because they describe ... they give you definitions in like plain English. "Translucent: A translucent material lets light pass through, but objects on the other side can't be seen clearly. Think Shrinky Dinks or stained glass." So I would say yeah, it is translucent because you can't see the objects clearly.

Jack:
[10:51] Stained glass. They say stained glass is translucent.

Manuel:
[10:53] Yeah.

Jack:
[10:54] I mean, but then my fingernail is stained glass for sure.

Manuel:
[10:57] And then transparent. "You can see right through something transparent. A window is transparent unless it's really, really, really dirty. Time to break out some soap." Yeah. I think your friend was right.

Jae:
[11:08] Was right.

Manuel:
[11:09] Wow! See, us Germans, we always know the answer!

Jack:
[11:13] Yeah. Or you Google it!

Berlin's Neighborhoods

Manuel:
[11:18] Okay, so for today's topic, we want to revisit a topic that we've actually already discussed on this show. But it was Episode 3, and I feel like we were really just getting started.

Jae:
[11:29] Yeah. I was in America, and we were just looking at pictures of that.

Manuel:
[11:36] Right, right. So the topic is: Berlin's Neighborhoods. And back then, I was trying to explain to you, Jae still in the US, what the different neighborhoods are like, so that you can make a decision on where to find your apartment.

Jae:
[11:52] Yes.

Manuel:
[11:52] I think we should revisit this topic, go through the different neighborhoods, and this time focus on the vibe, since that's what Jack is all about. He's all about the vibe.

Jae:
[12:01] Jack is all about the vibes. Vibey Jack!

Jack:
[12:04] Oh, God, it's so painful!

Manuel:
[12:05] You cycle. You're an avid cyclist.

Jack:
[12:07] I just started cycling again.

Manuel:
[12:09] We talked about cycling in Berlin in Episode 4 with you, with or without breaking your collarbone. [Mm-hmm.]

Jae:
[12:15] I remember that.

Manuel:
[12:17] And so you know all these different Kieze because you've cycled through them.

Jae:
[12:21] Yes.

Jack:
[12:22] You know what, though? Because there's so many more than you would think. Once I saw a map of Neukölln, and I didn't know about like Donaukiez and all these other Kiez, you know.

Manuel:
[12:33] That's actually a good first point. So neighborhoods ... we're going to focus on like the big neighborhoods. Kreuzberg, Friedrichshain, Neukölln.

Jack:
[12:39] Okay, so I would say they're like suburbs.

Manuel:
[12:41] But the word, Kiez is ... what's the translation for that?

Jack:
[12:45] I would say a Kiez is a neighborhood.

Jae:
[12:47] It's like a borough.

Manuel:
[12:49] It's a smaller...

Jack:
[12:50] Kreuzberg is like a suburb.

Jae:
[12:52] Yeah, like,I mean, if you have, like New York, you have Manhattan, and then in Manhattan, you have all these different boroughs and stuff like that.

Manuel:
[13:00] Okay, so Kiez would be borough.

Jae:
[13:02] Yeah, and then...

Manuel:
[13:03] And it's a small entity, and then the neighborhood or the...

Jae:
[13:07] The like suburb would be like the ... yeah, like, if we're using New York as the example, I would say there's New York, then there's Manhattan, and then there's the boroughs in Manhattan.

Manuel:
[13:18] Yeah, you're going to get in trouble for comparing Brooklyn to New York.

Jae:
[13:21] Look, that's all I can say.

Jack:
[13:23] I also just ... yeah, let's not look it up, because we'll probably be wrong!

Jae:
[13:27] Yeah, I'm totally wrong!

Jack:
[13:29] What is what? What ... yeah, what is what?

Manuel:
[13:32] Anyway, there's so many Kieze. [Yeah.] Like each neighborhood has so many.

Jae:
[13:37] Kiez is the most important thing. Neighborhood is one thing, but Kiez, that makes all the difference.

Manuel:
[13:43] I'm with you there, because it's true. Like you can, like Neukölln has really pretty Kieze, and it also has questionable Kieze. So it is true that there's a big difference depending on ...

Jae:
[13:56] And is it Kieze for plural or is it just always Kiez? Like I just say: There's many Kiez.

Manuel:
[14:02] No, no. One Kiez, two Kieze.

Jae:
[14:04] Really?

Manuel:
[14:05] For sure. So should we just go through the same ones that we went through last time?

Jae:
[14:10] We can, or we can start with our favorites.

Manuel:
[14:13] All right. Yeah, let's do that.

Neukölln

Jae:
[14:15] My favorite is Neukölln. I'm a Neukölln boy all the way.

Jack:
[14:18] Okay, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's also where I spend most of my time.

Jae:
[14:22] Yes.

Jack:
[14:22] But I think it would, I actually live ... not in Neukölln. When I first moved to Berlin, I lived in Neukölln. And then, yeah, we lived not ... like just a few streets away from each other.

Manuel:
[14:35] Those were the times.

Jack:
[14:36] It was a different world. We were all so simple. And our problems were so tiny.

Manuel:
[14:42] It's also the biggest neighborhood in Berlin.

Jae:
[14:45] Really?

Jack:
[14:45] It goes all the way to Brandenburg even. No? It doesn't go all the way to the bottom.

Manuel:
[14:50] It goes up quite... Yeah, it goes up very far south. I mean, down south.

Jack:
[14:56] Yeah. [Yeah.]

Jae:
[14:57] It is that big?

Manuel:
[14:59] 163,000 people.

Jack:
[15:01] There's also like Kreuzberg and Friedrichshain. One Kiez. One neighborhood, actually. [Really?] They're not two.

Manuel:
[15:08] So the naming is tricky.

Jack:
[15:10] The naming is really tricky.

Manuel:
[15:11] But before we get to those, so what's so great about Neukölln? It's very big, it's in the south, I mean, it's very hip. [It's very multicultural.]

Jae:
[15:20] Very multicultural. Like you have a lot of people of color, you have a lot of queer people. Like Schöneberg is known as a historically gay district, but I feel like Neukölln is more of the actually gay district or the ... [Gen Z.] Yes, Gen Z. Like I'm in 'Heuterkiz' now, and like I walk around and everyone is speaking English, it's very like ... [Where were you today?] 'Heuterkiez.'

Jack:
[15:46] Reuterkiez!

Manuel:
[15:47] Ah, Reuterkiez!

Jae:
[15:49] Reuterkiez. Really? If I mispronounce the word, that's tiny!

Jack:
[15:53] It sounds like you're saying Heuterkiez!

Manuel:
[15:55] Heuterkiez! It sounds like Heuterkiez!

Jack:
[15:56] Which might be another Kiez because there's so many Kiez.

Manuel:
[15:59] Reuterkiez. Reuterkiez.

Jae:
[16:00] Reuterkiez.

Jack:
[16:01] Yeah.

Jae:
[16:02] It's like a very like ... yeah, it was just very much this multicultural vibe. Things are a little bit cheaper, I would say, in Neukölln. I mean, although they are getting a bit gentrified now. I don't know, I think it's the most exciting area that we ... that I've experienced.

Manuel:
[16:18] I felt similarly when I moved to Berlin in 2012, and then I lived there for like three years and then I felt a little done with it because ... I mean also I lived right on top of a Döner Kebab [Yeah.] and the smell soak(ed) into the apartment. Is that the correct past tense?

Jae:
[16:38] Yeah.

Manuel:
[16:41] So, yeah. I mean, obviously.

Jack:
[16:44] It has its rougher edges, for sure.

Jae:
[16:47] It does.

Jack:
[16:47] But it was also like, especially during COVID, like, Hasenheide, I remember, became like a real hub.

Jae:
[16:54] I can imagine.

Manuel:
[16:56] Hasenheide is a big park.

Jack:
[16:57] I remember a huge park in the middle of ... or like, yeah, in Neukölln, not really the middle. And I remember leaving it one night, and then people were like getting in a cab and they were telling the cab to drive to Wedding! And I was like: You've come from Wedding to go to Hasenheide? It was like: Wow, okay, interesting! It really was like a hub during COVID.

Manuel:
[17:21] Okay.

Kreuzberg

Manuel:
[17:25] Next favorite. Second favorite. Or your favorite.

Jack:
[17:28] I mean, I spend most of my time on the border of the two. So like Kreuzberg, Neukölln.

Jae:
[17:34] Yeah.

Manuel:
[17:34] Which is also often referred to as Kreuzkölln.

Jack:
[17:37] Kreuzkölln, exactly. They're like...

Jae:
[17:39] They're like sisters.

Jack:
[17:41] Yeah. Along the canal. I spent a lot of COVID on the canal.

Jae:
[17:44] Maybachufer.

Jack:
[17:45] You spent a lot of COVID on the canal?

Jae:
[17:46] Yeah.

Jack:
[17:47] A lot of it, actually. Because there was nowhere else to go, and you had to like wander around and be outside. And there was like bocce courts and things. It was ... yeah, I would say that's kind of the vibe. But Kreuzberg is also big, and extends much more west than I initially thought it did. And it gets really pretty. It has really pretty areas and really horrible areas.

Manuel:
[18:10] Maybachufer.

Jae:
[18:12] Maybachufer, that's my area.

Jack:
[18:13] Maybachufer is the vibe.

Jae:
[18:14] Yeah.

Alt-Treptow

Jack:
[18:15] I'm not sure. I think I live in Alt-Treptow, which ... I mean, legally I live in Plänterwald, but no one likes to call it that because it makes it sound like I live really far away. And I wasn't the person, but someone actually like scrubbed out the sign that said, 'Plänterwald' and wrote 'Alt-Treptow' on it. And so I'm like: I live in Alt-Treptow. I don't care what anyone says. But I don't really do anything there. I do everything ... [It's very residential.] Yeah, I do everything in Neukölln, Kreuzberg ... Friedrichshain, I lived there also when I first moved to Berlin, but I never really ...

Jae:
[18:56] There's Boxi in Friedrichshain.

Jack:
[18:58] I lived just around ... I lived on Boxhagener Straße.

Jae:
[19:00] Oh, okay.

Friedrichshain

Manuel:
[19:02] I mean, Friedrichshain is where you first lived when you arrived, and it is probably the area that most people who move to Berlin, if they're going to like party, and like it's ... I feel like it's the most Berlin part of Berlin, in a way, because that's where all the clubs are, [Yeah.] a lot of the night life is there, [Yeah.] a lot of craziness in general.

Jae:
[19:28] It's a good, safe choice if you're just moving to Berlin. Like I don't ... like I would not choose it as my favorite now, but I definitely understand why I lived there and why people might go there.

Jack:
[19:41] It was like the Neukölln of the time when Berlin was really flourishing, I think.

Jae:
[19:47] Yeah.

Jack:
[19:48] You know, it went like: Mitte, Prenzlauer Berg, down Friedrichshain, and then Wolfsburg, Neukölln, and then kind of stopped. Tempelhof cut it off! And now, is it just Neukölln? Or is there somewhere more hip?

Jae:
[20:02] There's Schöneberg, technically.

Jack:
[20:04] Yeah, but that was not... I mean, that was maybe even pre-Mitte. [Yeah!]

Schöneberg

Manuel:
[20:09] Okay, okay, okay. One by one. So Schöneberg, I would say, is my favorite neighborhood.

Jae:
[20:12] Really?

Jack:
[20:13] Really?

Manuel:
[20:14] Yeah, because I feel like... So I live in Wedding, which we have to talk about. But Schöneberg...

Jack:
[20:18] It's about to happen, Wedding.

Manuel:
[20:21] Schöneberg is as clean and orderly and nice as I like it, without being so uptight. Like Charlottenburg is just too uptight and too, "We're the old West Berlin and ..." And Schöneberg has kept, kind of, its lightness and not taking itself too seriously. [Yes.] But it's also just nice. Like living in Wedding, I'm just used to trash everywhere, and you know ...

Jack:
[20:52] Yeah, I mean, you could still live above a Dönerladen in Wedding! It's not like you ...

Jae:
[20:56] Exactly.

Manuel:
[20:57] Exactly. And in Schöneberg, I lived on Goldstraße, which, in my opinion, is the most beautiful street in Berlin. And every time I come back there, it's also obviously whatever memories you have, you know, but that street, it just has so many artsy shops and cafes and restaurants, but it feels authentic. It doesn't feel like a tourist trap. The street doesn't even advertise itself. I feel like no tourist is going to go there unless they read about it in the guidebook.

Jae:
[21:24] Yeah.

Manuel:
[21:25] And so it's actual Berliners going there to have a nice coffee and eat some good food and check out the artsy-fartsy shops. And I really like that about Schöneberg.

Jae:
[21:36] I lived in Schöneberg for six months, like I just moved back to Neukölln, and it was ... Like I think the idea for me was nice, like I get it is definitely that it is very clean, it is nice, the people are somewhat okay, you don't have a lot of craziness going on, but internally I really like that craziness, I like the drama, I like the excitement. But I definitely think if you like that type of environment ... And there is things to do in Schöneberg if you like that vibe too, like it's not it's not too boring. And it has very pretty parks, like Gleisdreieck park is really nice.

Manuel:
[22:16] Is that still Schöneberg? [I think it's Kreuzberg. It's like the border.]

Jae:
[22:17] Yeah, like it's technically Schöneberg but it's like at the border, like it was literally at the border.

Manuel:
[22:26] Yeah, yeah. That's a good one. There's more ... there's really nice parks ... [Yeah.]

Jae:
[22:29] Yeah, and I think that's also really good. I think for me, my challenge with Schöneberg was it was like super residential, but also like the flats that we were living in were a lot of like bourgie parents and stuff, and dealing with like ... yes I own my families, but bourgie families is ... that's like another thing, because they're very much like high class, in a way, so I felt very out of place around those types of people. [Yeah.]

Jack:
[23:00] Yeah, I don't know, I remember it's not very international. I feel like it feels more German. [Yes.] It's like if Berlin ... if like Neukölln and Kreuzberg didn't get overrun by international people, maybe they would be more like Schöneberg in like the style of food that you can get and that kind of thing.But I don't really spend much time there.

Manuel:
[23:25] And like you said, Schöneberg used to be - or possibly even is considered - the queer ... Or at least part of it. Not all of Schöneberg, but Schöneberg holds a part that is like the gay area but it's different. I feel like it's the old Berliner gay scene that's there. Not all the people who came or ...yeah.

Jae:
[23:46] Yeah, definitely.

Jack:
[23:47] Definitely.

Manuel:
[23:48] But it is still ... Like every time I go to Schöneberg, you see someone in like a full body leather outfit.

Jae:
[23:56] Yeah.

Manuel:
[23:57] And it's kind of a double take.

Jack:
[23:58] Which you only see there.

Manuel:
[24:00] Yeah.

Jack:
[24:00] Yeah, you wouldn't see that same kind of like fetish-y vibe in Neukölln and Kreuzberg where there are a lot of gay people, like queer people. But it's a different generation.

Jae:
[24:15] It's a big difference, like they have the gay bars there. There's like Tom's Bar and something like that, and you go in, and those people I have never seen in my life before! [No.] And like I've been out a lot to know if I see people like I've never seen those people, and it's because they are from a different generation and it caters to them. [Yeah.] And like regards ... I think Schöneberg is like, if you have lived in Berlin long enough and you want to get outside of the busy-ness - because Prenzlauer Berg is there for some people who are bourgie, but it is still like close to the center - Schöneberg is a bit out there, so you're not having to deal with touristy stuff, so if people want to settle down but still want to do their own thing, I think that's where people go.

Prenzlauer Berg

Manuel:
[24:59] Good point. Yeah, I mean, Prenzlauer Berg is the one that receives like the most sarcastic comments. [Yes.] Because it's really ... Like Prenzlauer Berg is in the north, but not quite as north as Wedding. [Yeah.] And maybe ... Yeah, Prenzlauer Berg, it's just ... The joke is that people from Schwabenland ... Swabia - is that what it is in English? [I'm not sure what ...] - the south of Germany, move there with their families and buy up the expensive apartments and then block the sidewalk with their strollers [Yeah!] and annoy everybody with their Swabian accent. And it is a joke and a cliche, but it's also true! [Yeah.]

Jack:
[25:46] Like I feel like apparently ... I remember hearing - not verified - that Prenzlauer Berg had like the highest concentration of children in Europe. And I can believe it.

Jae:
[25:55] I can believe that so much. [Very family friendly.]

Jack:
[25:58] But I also feel like Prenzlauer Berg kind of came up - maybe it was Friedrichshain? - around this time where like hipster, the term hipster, really became almost ironic.

Jae:
[26:07] Yeah.

Jack:
[26:08] And where it's like: Wah! It's the hipster ... [It's the hipster families going there.]

Jae:
[26:11] Yeah.

Jack:
[26:11] I feel like Friedrichshain might be more hippie, whereas Prenzlauer Berg is like ...

Manuel:
[26:16] Friedrichshain actually houses ... You know they just caught this RAF terrorist ... I don't know how much you know about this today, but there was a terrorist group in the 80s? 70s? 80s? ... like a left-wing extreme terrorist group, German terrorist group, who murdered tons of people, blew things up, like it was ...

Jack:
[26:37] Like politicians [Crazy time!] and like company CEOs. [Oh shit!]

Manuel:
[26:41] Right. I was a child so I don't remember too much about it, yeah.

Jack:
[26:44] I think they were even in the like junior version of that, so I think it was ... I think they were like ... [Exactly.] I think they even ... Yeah it happened in the 70s.

Manuel:
[26:53] Most of it happened in the 70s. And she - the one that they just caught after years and decades - was in like the third generation of that group. [Yeah.] But yeah, they caught her in just like an apartment in Friedrichshain, I think.

Jack:
[27:06] Yeah. Apparently there was like a podcast that ... A podcast did a story about this whole thing, and somehow basically did a better job than the police and like tracked her down [Yeah, yeah.] and then she got arrested. [Oh wow!] [And it was a true crime podcast, played to the world.] Yeah. And yeah, I heard about it ... like they were talking about why journalists in a true crime podcast could possibly do a better job than the police. And it was because apparently they don't have to worry about jurisdiction, and so they could go to other places and like ask questions. [Yeah, knock on doors.] Exactly. So yeah.

Manuel:
[27:44] But coming back to Friedrichshain because I just ... because we were saying like Prenzlauer Berg is left, yes, but it's like hipster.

Jae:
[27:53] It is, yes.

Manuel:
[27:54] It's, like very mid, and then ...

Jae:
[27:56] It is gentrified left.

Manuel:
[27:58] It's gentrified left, and it's like the acceptable ...

Jack:
[28:01] Friedrichshain is left like, "My parents are really rich, and I'm left."

Jae:
[28:04] Yeah.

Manuel:
[28:05] Exactly.

Jack:
[28:06] "I'm like a lefty, but I'm being supported by my parents." Whereas Friedrichshain is like, "I literally live in a trailer and I have like nothing but the clothes that I'm wearing, and I support human rights."

Manuel:
[28:20] Exactly and that's ... ["And I'm vegan."] And so this terrorist, which I'm not making light of, like she was a terrorist but obviously ... So RAF stood for Rote Armee Fraktion, Red Army Faction, or yeah ...

Jack:
[28:36] I think f(r)action also in English.

Manuel:
[28:38] And so I saw this on Mastodon, like just a quote from a news article, because she just lived in a in an apartment there, and then, so ...

Jack:
[28:52] I think someone found her in a capoeira class!

Manuel:
[28:53] What? Found her in what?

Jack:
[28:57] In a capoeira class. Like, "I do capoeira with her!"

Manuel:
[29:00] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, they ... Yeah, they found the class, but she had already done it. [Yeah, yeah.] Anyway, so I just translated this news article: "An unsuspecting resident of the neighboring house is dumbfounded upon learning that he has lived next door to a sought-after RAF terrorist. 'To think I've lived next to the comrade for years. That's unbelievable,' he says, and departs with the slogan: Red Front." And that wouldn't happen in ... [Prenzlauer Berg.] ... in Prenzlauer Berg.

Jack:
[29:29] No, it would not. No, it would definitely not.

Manuel:
[29:32] The fact that they're like: Oh, I lived next to a free bird.

Jae:
[29:35] There's still a lot of comfortability in Friedrichshain when it comes to people being different or out there.

Jack:
[29:43] Yes. It's more punk. But they also pick like whoever renovates all of the houses in Friedrichshain. Someone decided that what they wanted to do was have like weird motifs on all the balconies, and they just made such horrible choices. It's like you could so tell that they're hippies. Because in Prenzlauer Berg, you know, the aesthetic is like clean and modern.

Manuel:
[30:12] Solar panels on the roof.

Jack:
[30:14] Yeah, whereas in Friedrichshain it's like, "Let's do weird things with the facade of this building." And I'm like, "Why?"

Manuel:
[30:21] How would you design the facade?

Jack:
[30:23] Less is more. But also just like they're trying ... it's like ... I don't know, just weird, weird, bespoke choices that I'm like: That's also going to be really annoying in terms of maintenance!

Jae:
[30:34] Yeah!

Jack:
[30:34] You know, because you made these like unique balconies, but they're like ... Trying to repair that ...

Jae:
[30:41] Yeah.

Jack:
[30:42] Hell, absolute hell!

Jae:
[30:44] Which place has the least construction going on?

Mitte

Manuel:
[30:48] Well, we can start with the one that has the most construction going on, which is Mitte. [Really?] I think so. I mean, I'm just going by feeling, but it feels like Mitte, there's always stuff going on.

Jack:
[30:59] I feel like in terms of construction, Neukölln is pretty wild, but I feel like it's also the the roadworks are really crazy.

Manuel:
[31:11] Yeah, yeah, but let's talk about Mitte. It's ... We talked about this, I think, in the last episode, but it's basically - or the other episode that we talked about the neighborhoods - Mitte means center. [Yeah.] And so it's very confusing because people are like: Oh, that's where I want to live, or: That's where I want to go as a tourist because that's the center of Berlin. But in a way it's the most dead area of Berlin.

Jack:
[31:37] I mean now, for sure, but I feel like the other day I came here on a Saturday, which I'm normally not in Mitte, I'm normally in the other center, the old center of the west Kudamm. And it was wild how different the demographic was of people, like I've never seen so many young people.

Manuel:
[31:56] In Mitte?

Jack:
[31:59] Yeah. In Mitte. Everyone was young They were queuing like nobody's business for bubble tea or some random food.

Manuel:
[32:08] Tourists though or locals?

Jack:
[32:10] I'm not sure. I feel like they were locals. Like you don't see any young people in the west. [Yeah, yeah.] Like they're all old people [Or they're students.]

Manuel:
[32:21] But Mitte has the museums, it has the bubble tea, and the sneaker stores, but ... And I mean, in terms of living ...

Jack:
[32:30] It also priced people out at the first, no? [Right.] I think like we still all live kind of in the center like we ... it's still ... I feel like just now people are starting to live outside the Ring.

Jae:
[32:44] Well, because they like can't.

Jack:
[32:45] Yeah, but for a long time that wasn't ... like people ... like even when i first moved here and I lived in Schillerkiez, [Yeah.] that was considered far. People were like: Oh Schillerkiez, uh-uh-uh! Now, that's like the place to be, and you're like ... I remember Körnerpark was like: Whoa, you're ... like you're in the sticks! And it's like now, if you live around Körnerpark it's like: Pardon, which park? Körnerpark? Like Körner ...this like old ... it was like an old sand mine [Yeah.] at the bottom of Neukölln or not even the bottom of Neukölln at the bottom of the Ring, within the Ring, Neukölln, which is not even ...

Manuel:
[33:18] It's true and ... but the other important thing to to understand is that Berlin doesn't  - like it has Mitte, the center - but it doesn't really have a center, because each of these neighborhoods is like their own city. And in fact, that's what it used to be. Like it's basically, Berlin was different cities, like Neukölln even was two different ... [Britz.] it was ... uh yeah. [Yeah.] What was it called? [Britz?] No. Yeah Britz.

Jack:
[33:43] Oh, below ... I think ... [Rixdorf? Rixdorf!] Rixdorf! And Britz, I don't know, that was like a real gay hub way back in like the 20s or 30s, like Richardsplatz, Richardplatz, or whatever, apparently it was the place to be.

Manuel:
[33:57] Anyway, they joined to become Berlin Neukölln ... yeah, it was Rixdorf and ...

Jack:
[34:05] I mean, I think it was ... wasn't it called Köln?

Manuel:
[34:08] Ah no, so ... sorry, yeah, so Neukölln used to be its own city and that was called Rixdorf and then that became part of Berlin. And yeah, so it's just good to know that a lot of these places really feel like individual towns or cities. [Yeah.] And so it's not like you can go to the center of Berlin and that's where most things happen, and then it [No.] like gets less and less, the more you move away from it. Quite the opposite. You move and there's something, then you move: nothing, then you move: there's something.

Jack:
[34:40] But it's still all quite small. I mean, compared ... I was in London before and comparing the different ... like crossing the city here is so much more - and going between these different areas - is so much more accessible.

Manuel:
[34:52] Totally. I mean, you mentioned how far Wedding is from Neukölln because Wedding is [On the opposite side.] in the north ,and Neukölln is in the south, but even with that, I cycle from Wedding to Neukölln and it takes me 40 minutes, 45 minutes.

Jack:
[35:07] Yeah, I think nowhere is 45 ... if you're in the Ring, 45 minutes max. [Yeah.] And whereas ... yeah. Yeah. [How is Wedding?]

Wedding

Manuel:
[35:14] So Wedding, 'Der Wedding kommt,' is the joke, [Any day now.] which means it's gonna get hip, it's going to become something, it's gonna make something of it.

Jae:
[35:27] I hear that all the time.

Jack:
[35:30] When I first moved here I went and helped a friend's friend - who I didn't know - renovate an apartment in Wedding that was about to take off. And that was in 2010, no, 2012.

Manuel:
[35:41] Yeah, it's a running joke.

Jack:
[35:42] So over 10 years ago, and it was like quite hilarious. I mean, who's laughing now, because she paid nothing for that apartment and it's probably worth much more now.

Manuel:
[35:51] And it is still one of the places where you have a higher chance of getting an affordable apartment,and it is ... I feel like it is gentrifying and stuff like that, it's not ... Because it used to be ... like Neukölln, it used to not be gentrified at all and a largely immigrant community and stuff, and now more and more people are moving to it. And it's the same in Wedding, but Wedding hasn't undergone the Neukölln treatment with all the hip places and cafés.

Jack:
[36:24] It also doesn't get so much shit from the government. I feel like in the news you hear about Neukölln all the time, whereas you don't hear about Wedding.

Manuel:
[36:31] Right. And it does have its problems, particularly the trash, like there's just a big trash problem. I even recently ... like I was walking down the street and a kid had just finished his meal and just threw the plate and the fork on the ground. [Wow!] And I was like, "Dude, you just dropped your plate." And he's like, "Yeah, I'll pick it up later." I'm like, "No, pick it up now! This is like ... this is both of our ... like this is where we both live."

Jack:
[37:02] I've never seen that.

Manuel:
[37:03] And he refused. And he was like, "No." And then ... Yeah, and so that's a problem. But, yeah, and there's the firecrackers year round. So that's a bit of a problem. Especially if you have a... [Year round?] Yeah, depending on where you are, but yeah. So that's annoying. But apart from those kind of minor issues, it's just very residential and calm. [Yeah.] There's not that much going on.

Jack:
[37:32] I always like riding back from Wedding because it feels like going downhill!

Manuel:
[37:36] Because you're imagining the map?

Jack:
[37:38] I don't know! Yeah, I think so. Honestly, it feels like I can ride from mine to basically deep Wedding in not so long, but the way back it's like: Mm, this is nice!

Jae:
[37:49] They haven't ... [Your refresher.]

Jack:
[37:51] Well, have they added all the ... have they gone cycle-path crazy in Wedding?

Manuel:
[37:55] No, not so much. They added one part from Leopoldplatz to the headquarters of Bayer, but there's like one stretch.

Jack:
[38:08] And I feel like the road's still really shitty.

Charlottenburg

Manuel:
[38:10] Yeah, and they were so proud of that one stretch that they added a cycle path, but yeah.

Jae:
[38:17] So how is Charlottenburg? I don't think any of us ...

Manuel:
[38:19] That's the old West, that's what you mentioned, Kudamm, where you work, and Kudamm, Kurfürstendamm, used to be the Champs-Élysées of Berlin, right? That's where the expensive department stores are.

Jae:
[38:37] Yes, I got off at Zoologischer Garten and I was just like ... I felt like I was in a new city. There was bright lights and big buildings. I was like: What is this?

Manuel:
[38:49] Yeah, and they're constructing more. I think they are planning to construct the highest skyscraper in Europe right next to Zoologischer Garten.

Jae:
[38:58] Really?

Jack:
[38:58] I mean, Zoo, early in the morning, it's rough. That area is still really rough. It's like ... it's quite famous as like a rough place in Berlin [Well, it used to be in the 80s] from books, yeah [Yeah, Christina ...] Still ... [Christiana, from Bahnhofzoo, that was about drug addicts.] There's still a few of her around there, [Yeah.] for sure, and in the morning it can be a little bit scary.

Manuel:
[39:22] But then the tourists roll in and ...

Jae:
[39:24] Yes, it's a very tourist-attracted place and I can understand why. It has this very much commercial ...

Jack:
[39:29] Yeah. [... feel to it.] But the tourist vibe there is so different to the tourist vibe in Mitte, for example.

Manuel:
[39:36] Yeah.

Jae:
[39:36] Yeah.

Jack:
[39:37] It's very, very different.

Manuel:
[39:39] It feels very ... Kudamm especially, just feels very commercial. [Yeah.]

Jack:
[39:42] Yeah. But what I don't get, and what annoys me a lot about central areas in Berlin, why are there like four- or five-lane highways there? Why are there ... ?

Manuel:
[39:54] For car races. Kurfürstendamm is famous for its illegal car races.

Jack:
[39:56] Yeah, it's quite dangerous. They've just added like a speed camera, I think, there. Even like ... because people die.

Manuel:
[40:03] On no, speed, and a noise camera.

Jack:
[40:04] Noise, yeah, noise radar. [Really?] Yeah, because they come with the tuned cars [Yeah.] and they like go up and down, up and down, like, Look at my car! It's like ... [Oh, wow.]

Potsdamer Platz

Jae:
[40:14] We didn't talk ... Is what you call Potsdamer Platz like a Kiez in itself or just an area?

Jack:
[40:20] I think it's a Kiez, but it's not a neighborhood. [No.] [Yeah.] [It's just part of Mitte.] Yeah, it's part of Mitte, I think. [Gotcha.] It's really interesting, when we were there, we were ... I think they have 'Fridays for Future' or something, and there was a picture of what the area looked like not that long ago. It was completely empty.

Manuel:
[40:40] That's where the wall was, and that was the death zone. [Yeah.] And so when the wall fell, that just was all empty land and there was so much space. And then they developed it and they put the little skyscrapers there. And they very much planned it, and as is often with things that are planned, it kind of ends up a bit dead. [Yeah.] Like it didn't just happen organically, like they were like: Oh we have all this free land, let's put ... but skyscrapers here will be great. And now it's just like a giant intersection with a mall and some skyscrapers, and you kind of don't want to be there.

Jack:
[41:15] Is the cinema even there anymore?

Manuel:
[41:17] I mean, there's still the two, the Berlinale one and the other one, but the CineStar Original closed. Like they're not ... the one ... 'cause ... The like main one, I mean, it's still there because that's where the Berlinale festival happens.

Jack:
[41:30] I thought, no, that now moved to Zoo. That moved to like Palas.

Manuel:
[41:33] Okay, no, no, then it closed. It closed. Because there used to be that one CineStar Original that just only showed every movie in English with no subtitles.

Jae:
[41:40] Yeah.

Manuel:
[41:41] And that closed, apparently wasn't viable.

Jack:
[41:43] Wow, okay. I remember going there earlier on, when I fee l like maybe it was harder to see original language movies. But now [It's very easy.] it's great, yeah, Yorck Kinos are like everywhere.

You have to live wherever

Jae:
[41:54] Yes, Yorck Kinos are everywhere. I love my Yorck Kinos. Now, so the question that I talked to somebody about: since housing is such a challenging thing now, you kind of have to live wherever there's a housing available, so can you still identify with your Kiez? Like, can a Kiez still be a status symbol? Because, you know, apparently people used to like specifically choose where they want to live, and that's how they represented themselves [Oh, yeah.] but now since ...

Manuel:
[42:25] You know, I had a great quote recently.

Jae:
[42:26] Yeah.

Manuel:
[42:28] Don't try to make the right choice. Try to make the choice right - or make the choice right. [Oh, yeah.] I mean, I think all of these places have their little thing, [Yeah.] and you can be proud, even maybe in Charlottenburg.

Jack:
[42:44] Don't be proud! Do not be proud of that! That's the only one ... [Shush!] Yeah. No, I think ... I feel like everywhere you go, wherever you are, if you just like focus on your little Kiez for a little bit, you'll discover new things that you would ... They're not like ... They wouldn't have been destinations, but when you're there, it makes sense.

Jae:
[43:05] Yeah, that's true. I mean, I feel that like ... So I lived in Neukölln and I really loved Neukölln, but then I had to move to Kreuzberg and then I had to move to Schöneberg, and now I'm back in Neukölln. I still felt that even when I was living in Kreuzberg and Schöneberg, I felt that I was still a Neukölln person. [Oh yeah?] Yeah. Like every time I came to Neukölln, I was like: Ah, this is my place.

Manuel:
[43:29] See that's ... I live in Wedding but I kind of feel like I'm still a Schöneberg person.

Jae:
[43:32] Really?

Manuel:
[43:34] So maybe it's just ... But that wasn't even in my first Kiez. So it's not about the first one. It's about where you identify.

Jack:
[43:39] Yeah, that's really interesting actually.

Tiergarten

Manuel:
[43:42] But also maybe Potsdamer Platz is part of Tiergarten, not Mitte.

Jae:
[43:49] Ah, we forgot Tiergarten. [But is Tiergarten its own area?]

Manuel:
[43:52] I think so. I just looked at the list of what we talked about last time.

Pankow

Manuel:
[43:55] And we also forgot about Pankow, which is beautiful.

Jack:
[43:59] Did we? Did we really?

Manuel:
[44:02] I love Pankow.

Jack:
[44:03] I've never been to Pankow.

Manuel:
[44:07] It borders Prenzlauer Berg, but it's not as hyped. It's like a little secret Prenzlauer Berg. [Mm yeah.] It's similar, it's like left, and ...

Jack:
[44:15] Is it? I actually don't know the demographic of Pankow. [It kind of blends in with Prenzlauer Berg.] It blends in ... Weissensee is there, no? [Yeah ...] Or is that its own thing? I feel like I don't know Pankow enough to judge it, even though I do, and I wouldn't ...

Lichtenberg

Jack:
[44:30] Like if ... I feel like Pankow in my mind Is the same as like: Oh my God, Lichtenberg? [No!] where I like ... I know these places exist and people have definitely started to move there. Like I know several people that have moved to Lichtenberg where you're like: Wow!

Manuel:
[44:47] Yeah, Lichtenberg is one of the places where you can still find an apartment. I think they're building ...

Jack:
[44:48] Yeah, and I think it's going to happen before Wedding! I think Lichtenberg's going to pop up ... [No, no, no!]

Marzahn

Jack:
[44:55] I'm not even kidding! [I mean, I hear a lot more people move to Lichtenberg than Wedding.] Yeah. we're going to like literally ... Marzahn will gentrify before Wedding actually ... [ Okay, what's Marzahn?] Yeah, Marzahn is like racist and not a vibe - sorry to anyone who lives there but ... probably not sorry!

Manuel:
[45:12] You get these high-rise buildings.

Jack:
[45:14] It's high- ... yeah, it's like these old like Plattenbau ... It's like a bit more East. [Gotcha.] It gets real East real quick, once you go past like Frankfurter Tor, it's just like ... But actually I was in one of these Plattenbau recently.

Manuel:
[45:28] All of a sudden you're in the Soviet Union!

Jack:
[45:29] Exactly! And the apartment was actually really nice inside, like very liveable, [Yeah.] such a nice cut, huge, domed, big windows. Exactly, outside they look horrible, but inside I was like: This is the vibe! [Not bad, not bad!] Yeah, it's like it's more industrial than i've ever lived.

Jae:
[45:47] Do you know how much do you think those flats are going for?

Jack:
[45:50] I feel like ... I mean, this one he'd done up quite nice, but I feel like they were quite quite cheap at some point.

Manuel:
[45:56] Yeah, and the tram goes all the way out there. You'll be on the tram for like an hour-and-a-half or something, but ...

Jack:
[46:00] Yeah, and there's like a Dong Xuan Center, there's lots of stuff out there, it's fun. [Yeah.] And there's a great pool. I mean, Lichtenberg, I feel like actually maybe it's the next place to be! [I'm sure all the ...] [That's ambitious! That is very ambitious! You heard it here first! Buy apartments!] Yeah, buy apartments in Lichtenberg, gentrify it! [Yeah.] Take advantage of the cheap, cheap, cheap ...

Jae:
[46:25] They do have a lot of housing. I will say that They have a lot of housing. If you go there, the buildings are huge and there's a lot of flats, but I keep hearing that there's nothing to do there.

Jack:
[46:36] No, but I mean there's nothing to do in Alt-Treptow either, and I live there! But I mean it's very ... I would say, some places, like Alt-Treptow, are really Kiez-y, where like people feel because it's not a ... [They have a sense of identity.] Yeah, they have a sense of identity because it's not a destination. [Yeah.] It's like: We are with ourselves. [Yes, we gotta make it on our own.] There's no reason for you to be here, so we like it, [Yeah.] and it became ... Yeah, but I don't know if Lichtenberg feels that way.

Gaining an overview

Manuel:
[47:09] Jae, I have to say, I'm quite impressed how good of an overview you have of all these different neighborhoods, because I feel like it took me nine years to really understand the layout of Berlin. And I'm bad at geography in general, so this is a problem in my life. But I feel like I've only a few years ago gotten to the point where (a) I feel like I have this characterization in my head of all these places that now I can do a podcast episode about it, but also that know at least roughly where they are on the map, and that I can, if I have to, cycle or drive from one place to another without instructions. It took me so long even just ... I mean, I [inaudible] driving ...

Jack:
[47:53] You can drive without instructions? It's insane! I don't know how people got around with that ...

Manuel:
[47:56] Driving is easier. Driving is very easy. Easier than bikes because you have the signs.

Jack:
[48:01] Highway intersections make no sense, it's insane. You want to go west? It's like: Okay, well, turn east, because that's the way that this intersection works.

Manuel:
[48:08] Right, but you'll have the yellow signs that will say: This is towards Prenzlauer Berg, This is towards Wedding.

Jack:
[48:13] It gives me crazy anxiety. I can't read and drive! Even with a map! [Do you have a license?] I do have a license.

Manuel:
[48:19] When did you get your license?

Jack:
[48:20] When I was like 16. Passed the test, first go. Even though I rode the curb during a reverse parallel park.

Manuel:
[48:26] But you can't drive in Germany? Do you have a German license?

Jack:
[48:28] I switched it to German, quite recently. [Aha!] Yeah yeah. If anyone wants to rent a car I can do it, it's unfortunately ... [What's your rate?] I ... Well it depends what you need. I need to pick up a TV later so that'll be interesting. [Get your miles!] But ... Yeah, get a rental, rental miles! No, but I find the whole idea of driving without a GPS unimaginable, because the roads don't make sense. Like with a bike you can be like: I'm just gonna ride that way, you know, you don't really have to look ... [Yeah.] With ... highway intersections are insane, and even the signs - crazy.

Manuel:
[49:08] I feel the opposite because when you're driving, you're on roads and they have signs and you can see: Okay, this way will lead me to the general direction that I need to go. On a bike, you generally don't want to stay on the big roads, you want to find your way. [You want to just go in the right directions ...] [Yeah.] kind of right direction and kind of just wiggle through, and that's impossible without Google Maps and ... because then I'll just go in the wrong direction and then realize: Oh shit! I'm going ...

Jae:
[49:41] But if you know generally where you're going, then it's quite easy. Like I feel I can get around Berlin quite easily without having to use the GPS.

Manuel:
[49:48] And that ... Now I'm at that place too but that's why I'm saying I'm impressed, because I feel like that took me nine years. [Yeah.] And my recommendation would be for people: (a) don't take the subway. [Cycle.] [Yeah.] Cycle, because that will really help you understand the city and (b) when you're cycling, even if you're using directions try to like pay attention and remember: Oh! Like this is the street that takes me there, [Yes, yeah.] and this is the border. Like also like having the map kind of in your mind and knowing: Now I'm crossing from Neukölln to Kreuzberg, and so on. That really will help you kind of get a hold of the city.

Jack:
[50:26] Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely true. But even with bikes, I still discover tiny little Kiez that like ... There's a whole area in Kreuzberg that is kind of above the U1 where König Galerie is around,and it is like such a nice little vibe. There's no through roads, basically, it's like if you're there, you're like, the way that you can still discover the city so many years ... after so many years living here. [Buy a bicycle!] Genau!