Transcript

Podcast Updates

Manuel:
[0:09] Happy New Year.

Jae:
[0:10] That didn't sound so happy!

Manuel:
[0:12] Happy New Year! Do you know that Jim Carrey one, where he goes insane, on YouTube?

Jae:
[0:18] Yes.

Manuel:
[0:19] And the funny thing is, it wasn't even New Year's. It was like in October or something. That's my goal, to get on his level of excitement.

Jae:
[0:29] Happy New Year!

Manuel:
[0:30] Happy New Year!

Jae:
[0:31] Happy New Year!

Manuel:
[0:32] It's already February.

Jae:
[0:33] It is already February.

Manuel:
[0:34] It's been a while.

Jae:
[0:35] It has.

Manuel:
[0:36] But the podcast is not dead.

Jae:
[0:41] No. Long live ... [It was in hibernation.] ... Everyone Is Moving to Berlin. [Yeah.] Our little podcast for people who are planning to move to Berlin, have moved here, lived here in the past, [Yeah.] and just want to hear what it's like now. [Yeah.] Really, anyone.

Jae:
[0:58] Yeah, and it's a pretty useful podcast. I get it ... not often, often, but there's always like one or two people that come up to me randomly at a party or something like, "Your voice is from the podcast. You've helped so much."

Manuel:
[1:13] Aww.

Jae:
[1:14] Yes, it's a very nice feeling.

Manuel:
[1:16] That's awesome. I have to say, I'm cutting projects [Yeah.] out of my life. We'll get to that maybe in the personal updates. But this podcast ... it really has grown. I mean, we were excited from the beginning, but it's like part of my life now. Like, I don't want to give it up.

Jae:
[1:33] No.

Manuel:
[1:34] I do think we try to do a whole thing of like an episode every week and stuff, and it was just too much. But I think we're going to keep coming together whenever we feel like it.

Jae:
[1:45] Yeah. I like that approach as well, because no, this project should not die. And eventually this project should scale, like one day, because it's the perfect idea. It's the perfect idea.

Manuel:
[1:56] What do you mean scale? I mean, there's only so many people who this even applies to.

Jae:
[2:01] No, there's a lot of people this applies to. Like, there's so many people who are in my position, just stressed out about every little thing. You can make videos about this. You can make a website about this. You can really, like, nurture the Discord.

Manuel:
[2:13] Oh, that's what you mean by "scale". You don't just mean more listeners. [No, it ... yeah.] You mean this should be a lifestyle.

Jae:
[2:19] Yes. Honestly, it really could.

Manuel:
[2:21] Merch!

Jae:
[2:22] It could, but like now it's not the time, but like that's why also I want to keep this alive because I'm like the potential forward is also there and it is a very helpful tool. I mean, Berlin is not an easy place to live. I keep getting reminded of that.

Manuel:
[2:36] And especially not an easy place to move to. [No.] Like the first few months, as we've talked about a lot, are really hard. My dream for this podcast is for it to more and more evolve into a community project. [Yes.] I mean it already has some of that. I wanted to take the time to mention, so first of all Valda, I know she doesn't want to take much credit or anything, but she's meticulously transcribing every single episode, so if you ever want to search for a specific thing we said or you just like reading, we have perfect transcripts on our website: everyone.berlin. Also I wanted to mention six people have supported us on Buy Me a Coffee, and two people are active members. Thank you very much to Creighton and Kali, Maksim, Someone, Natalie and @rockinmoroccin, and Stephanie and Goose who are our members. And I want to mention, like obviously this is a hobby, we're not doing it for the money, but we are not even ... Like we're set back money, where we're about €200 in the minus just because of the hosting cost and the website and stuff like that, and a donation does help cover those costs. So we really appreciate that, and you can find us, at - see I should know the url for this if I really wanted to pitch this! - just go to everyone.berlin and I think we'll put maybe ... Is it too much to put a little banner at the bo ... at the top, to say like: Hey ...

Jae:
[4:17] You could. But I mean there's like the Buy Me a Coffee like type of ...

Manuel:
[4:21] Yeah, but it's currently, it's hidden under Contribute, and then it's like near the bottom.

Jae:
[4:25] One extra step.

Manuel:
[4:26] You know, Amanda Palmer, she did the TED Talk, The Art of Asking.

Jae:
[4:32] Aah.

Manuel:
[4:33] You know, it's okay. If you're an artist, you should ask ... For people to support you.

Jae:
[4:39] Yes.

Manuel:
[4:40] That's ... I wanted to get that out of the way. But also, if you don't have any money or you just don't want to give us any money, that's fine. You could suggest topics or guests. [Yes.] Not that we have run out of ideas, but I really enjoy kind of this ... people just sending an email and then coming on the show. And so many of these episodes have been so lovely and so ...

Jae:
[5:01] They're very valuable. [Yeah.] Do you remember Kevin from Potsdam?

Manuel:
[5:05] Yes, of course.

Jae:
[5:07] One of the people that I met at a party, he recognized me, said that he tried to book an appointment with Kevin as a tour.

Manuel:
[5:15] Amazing!

Jae:
[5:16] But Kevin was booked!

Manuel:
[5:17] Oh my God! We booked out Kevin!

Jae:
[5:20] Yes, yes.

Manuel:
[5:21] So if you want to come on the show, maybe you know someone who, you know, knows his way around Berlin. Or her.

Jae:
[5:29] Or has something that can be very useful to people. Like I thought that we had covered all the topics that you can cover.

Manuel:
[5:38] No.

Jae:
[5:39] And I am still running into a lot of things that I'm like: Oh, wow! If I'm going through this, I can only imagine ...

Manuel:
[5:46] Totally.

Jae:
[5:47] Yes.

Manuel:
[5:48] And if all fails, just send us a nice email. Send us a motivational email. [Yeah.] Tell us: Hey, keep going.

Jae:
[5:54] We believe in you.

Manuel:
[5:55] Honestly, I've gotten some really nice emails over Christmas and stuff. And it really helps.

Jae:
[6:00] It does.

Manuel:
[6:01] Yeah.

Jae:
[6:02] Touching people.

Personal Updates

Manuel:
[6:04] Anyway, what's been going on in your life?

Jae:
[6:05] Oh a lot. A lot's been going on in my life. I finally found a flat! Like a real ... Like my name is signed on the lease with my partner. Love you, Paul, thank you so much. [Aww.] And yeah, it is like our flat that we have, and it needs a lot of renovation.

Manuel:
[6:29] I will drink to that!

Jae:
[6:30] But, whoo! [Cheers!] Cheers! I'll drink water to that. It needs a lot of renovation still but it's nice to have like our place that is indefinite, and that is mine. Literally, my name is on the lease, and that is a really good feeling.

Manuel:
[6:53] And this is after two years in Berlin?

Jae:
[6:56] This is after two years in Berlin.

Manuel:
[6:58] And I think this is more or less the norm now. So just, you know, setting expectations again, [Yeah.] this is totally normal.

Jae:
[7:04] Yes. If I was to tell my younger self who moved to Berlin: Don't expect a place any time soon ... If I actually, you know, if I was to like actually go back and give myself advice, it would really ... because I think when I came here ... and I think a lot of people come here with this idea that like no matter what, you still want to find your own flat, right? [Of course.] Like that was in the back of my head. But I wish what I actually did was find the actual just good flat shares that I can live in and I can actually enjoy.

Manuel:
[7:42] The actual good what?

Jae:
[7:43] Flat shares.

Manuel:
[7:44] Oh, oh yeah.

Jae:
[7:45] Actually, because I didn't really look for good flat shares. [Yeah.] I just looked for something that's going to hold me over until I get my own flat. But there's something to just letting go of this looking for your own flat.

Manuel:
[7:56] "I have to live by myself." Yeah, it's true. there's too many singles in Berlin. And really, if you're open to living with other people, even if you're not a student anymore, more opportunities are gonna arise. And I think - we've said this many times - especially if you're completely new here, it only helps to have someone ... [Yeah.] And it's cheaper.

Jae:
[8:18] And it's cheaper, and you don't always like ... To be fair like the places that I've seen my friends live in, some of these flats that they share with other people are actually really nice. [Totally.] So you can get a lot more if you're also willing to sacrifice this "I have to live by myself" mentality. Because I think that really made me more just desperate to find a place, and it always is putting my energy into finding a place by myself. Which is not like, of course, bad. But like, let's face it, it's reality, so you might as well do the best you can with what the situation is like.

Manuel:
[8:53] Yeah. And then you can take your time, you know, that can still be the goal: Hey in the next two years I want to find my own place. But start off with a good flat share.

Jae:
[9:04] Yes. Start off with a good flat share. Yes. Yeah, so found my new flat and that is going good. I also ... I'm a really big into to generative AI art, that is like my bread and butter.

Manuel:
[9:22] Generative AI art. I think we're still ...

Jae:
[9:25] Gen AI.

Manuel:
[9:26] Gen AI. I think we're still in a phase where you have to explain what that is to people. I don't think everybody knows.

Jae:
[9:31] I just want to sound techie and smart and nerdy. Generative AI art is essentially like AI that makes images. Y'all know how everyone's been talking about, oh yeah, image generators in ChatGPT and DALL·E 3 and Midjourney? That's image generation. And generative AI is like just generative AI, like ChatGPT and stuff like that.

Manuel:
[9:59] But it's a whole thing. It's not just you say: Hey, make a nice image of a cat. But it's like a whole process. [A process.] You spend hours [Yeah.] refining and writing. Just like people used to spend hours in Photoshop manipulating an image. Now you're doing the same, except you're doing it through tech, basically through telling the machine what to do.

Jae:
[10:23] Yes, exactly. And still using Photoshop when you need to. People, it is an actual job. But yeah, I met someone ... Well, a friend of mine visited from California and he met someone who is the graphic designer for this gay health magazine called Check (Mag), and I met him, we became friends. And he likes generative AI. And then he said that he asked the people that he works with if we can try to test out a new image or like a new cover. They liked what I came up with, and it got approved. So for this next edition my generative AI art will be on the cover of the next Check magazine.

Manuel:
[11:12] Yes, I've already seen it. It looks like a real person, but it's not. And it looks like a real city in the background, but it's not.

Jae:
[11:18] But it's not. Yes, it's crazy. And the guy that I generated is very hot as well! I'll admit that's a beautiful man!

Manuel:
[11:29] Was that the prompt? "Make me a beautiful man!"

Jae:
[11:32] He's a beautiful man, you know. No, that wasn't ... It just had to be ... Midjourney just knew what I wanted. [Mmh, I see.] But yeah, so there was also some things that we could talk about with that. But yeah, those are my two big updates.

Manuel:
[11:49] Great. What's your goal for the year?

Jae:
[11:52] My goal for the year?

Manuel:
[11:54] I mean, if you have one, but ...

Jae:
[11:56] Ooh, my goal for the year ... Well, I'm starting therapy consistently next month, which is really good. My goal for the ...

Manuel:
[12:04] Afforded by public health insurance?

Jae:
[12:05] Hmm? Afforded by public health insurance. Thank you.

Manuel:
[12:09] Yeah, that's not what I meant. I meant like, were you able to get it approved, like ... ?

Jae:
[12:13]Yeah. Yes.

Manuel:
[12:14] Because it is ... Yeah, I wouldn't say it's super ... Well, it's more difficult to find a spot than to get it approved. But you still also then have to go through the process. I guess the doctor, the therapist says: Yes, you need it. And then you send that to your insurance. I don't know. Explain how that process works.

Jae:
[12:32] So I found her actually last year, like last summer. But she didn't take my insurance. So I had to cancel my insurance, TK, and then go to BKK VBU.

Manuel:
[12:48] Why doesn't the therapist ... Wouldn't they be the same?

Jae:
[12:52] I have no idea. But she just said, "You have to switch your insurance," which it was no ... like it's free to do that, it doesn't cost me anything to do that.

Manuel:
[13:00] No, it's just different benefits.

Jae:
[13:03] Yeah. [Yeah.] So I had to do that. I procrastinated on it. So it took me a few months to do.

Manuel:
[13:10] Actually, just to clarify, there are price differences between the public insurances. They're very small, but basically, the insurance is paid through your paycheck, and half of it is paid by you or is deducted from your paycheck, and the other half is paid by the employer. And it's ... I don't know the percentages, but let's say 14% of your salary is deducted for insurance, then some other insurance, it could be 14.3%. Like, there are some differences in price. [Interesting.] So, it does pay to, like, kind of compare.

Jae:
[13:48] Compare and check.

Manuel:
[13:49] I think we recommended TK here, which is, I think, one of the cheaper ones and one of the better ones. But obviously, there's not that many differences between the public health insurance companies.

Jae:
[14:00] Yeah. TK was okay. We had issues!

Manuel:
[14:02] You had issues. But I think they were two-sided.

Jae:
[14:05] They were very two-sided. But yeah, so I finally got my therapist. It took some time to do, and then I let her know. And then I had my appointment with her, but I still didn't actually start, because now she has to now go apply or like send this off to get it approved, like: Hey, I want to - as you just said - hey, I want this person to therapize, he needs therapy!

Manuel:
[14:33] "I want to therapize this person!"

Jae:
[14:35] He needs it! And then I have to also get a letter from my psychiatrist that also states my diagnosis.

Manuel:
[14:43] Really? [Yeah.] But is that the regular ... ?

Jae:
[14:45] It's because I have a diagnosis, I think, though. It's because ... I need therapy!

Manuel:
[14:51] But I wonder, so is there always this type of two-step process, or is it a special process?

Jae:
[14:59] I had no idea. I didn't know that it was ... I didn't even know this process existed. I thought my appointment that I had the other day was going to be my first session.

Manuel:
[15:08] Instead, it was just more bureaucracy.

Jae:
[15:09] It was just more paperwork. It was more bureaucracy.

Manuel:
[15:14] It's really ... especially ... Yeah. It's almost ironic or funny if it wasn't so sad that, you know, that's what we make people who really need help do. Like the things, the hoops you have to jump through [Yeah.] to be able to get help, it's crazy, it's a lot.

Jae:
[15:37] So my goal for this year is to ... My goal is ... My theme for this year is forgiveness. Forgiving myself, forgiving others, forgiving everything, because Berlin definitely makes it very hard and bitter sometimes. So my goal is just to keep forgiving and to be a little bit lighter this year, like not hold so much things.

Manuel:
[16:00] All right.

Jae:
[16:01] But enough about me. What about you?

Manuel:
[16:04] Me? I ... My goal is to relax a little bit this year. I definitely like working and like starting projects and like doing things, but I have overdone it in the past. And, for example, I started a podcasting course last year in German that I was very, very excited about and still am really excited about. But it was just too ambitious in terms of the time commitment like I ... this course ... Developing a course that is as thorough and and and good as I want it to be just takes time. You just can't do it with one Saturday per month or two, and it was stressing me out because I really pressured myself. And so I'm putting that on hold. I think I'll get back to it, but I'm not setting any deadlines for myself. And then apart from my regular work at Easy Languages and Easy German, this is really my only kind of side project right now. Personally, I think my theme this year, apart from relaxing and spending more time with friends, is kind of like a spring cleaning ... spring clean, in all different areas of life, almost. Like I really want to go through my stuff and see what I can give away. And what, you know ... I always call myself a minimalist. I used to be very vocal about that: Minimalism is the way to go ! And when I look at my apartment now, you know, [It's not so ... !] Stuff accumulates!

Jae:
[17:45] It is kind of minimal!

Manuel:
[17:48] It's so weird how that happens! But yeah, I need to scale back on that. I just want to own fewer things. And yeah, just kind of go through my digital stuff as well a little bit ...

Jae:
[18:02] Oh, that's hard.

Manuel:
[18:03] And just really kind of feel a little lighter. [Yeah.] That's my goal. Yeah. I have a recommendation for everyone, which you already know because I gave it to you.

Jae:
[18:14] I can back up this recommendation.

Manuel:
[18:15] It's a book that someone recommended. There's lots of books about Berlin and the Berlin experience. I haven't read most of them. This one is very short and it is so lovely, so nice. It's probably my favorite book that I that I read last year. I just finished it. And it's called, In the End, It Was All About Love, by - what's the author's name? This is embarrassing because I really want to get him on the show - Musa Okwonga. If anyone knows this gentleman, please connect us. I reached out to him via email or to his, I think, publisher. Anyway, read this book. It's super short and it so reflects his specific experience in Berlin, but there's so many parts where I was just like: Yes! I want to read one quote to you towards the end.

[19:18] Also, this book is written in the second person. [Yeah.] So he writes: You are doing this. [It's very interesting.] You come to Berlin, you ... but he's talking about himself. So: You are probably happiest in transition in that space between completing a satisfying piece of writing at your desk and heading out to embrace both your loved ones and the long night ahead. On those half hour journeys, because everywhere in Berlin is half an hour away, that's the rule, you wander along and keep reminding yourself how lucky you are that this is the best life gets between the temporary rest of your ambition and the promise of open arms. Hah! It's beautiful and it's ... I really know I have ... I know this feeling, where you're just cycling through Berlin in the middle of the night, you're cycling through Brandenburg Gate and you're meeting some friends, and you're just ... you're just happy to be in Berlin. [Yeah.] And you really feel like: Hey this is the best life gets. [Yeah.] Like this ... this is it.

Jae:
[20:22] Those are the moments that also revalidate why I live in Berlin [Mm-mmh] as well too. I think ... Yeah, Berlin is a very tough city and everyone's like: Why do you stay there? There's just something about the beauty of those moments, I think, that makes you, I think, very grateful for life. But also grateful for moments in life as well, too. [Yeah.] And any second that you get to actually realize that, is actually really good as well. What else is going on in Berlin?

The Anti-Racism Protests

Manuel:
[20:59] Yeah, let's talk about what's been going on here in the last few weeks and months almost. So, a lot of demonstrations [Yeah.] against racism and against the AfD, taking place not just in Berlin, but all over Germany. And do you know what was the event that sparked these protests?

Jae:
[21:27] I want to say I know a bit, but not enough to like repeat anything.

Manuel:
[21:31] So basically the AfD - I think most people have heard of it - is this right-wing party that really started about ten years ago, I want to say, as a mostly anti-EU party. It was like a little bit of a fringe party in the beginning, and yeah, it was founded in 2013. And in the beginning it already had some political ideas and goals that definitely weren't mine, but it wasn't a Nazi party. But it slowly but surely transitioned into a party that is dominated by far-right extremists and flat-out Nazis. Not everyone who's in the AfD obviously is a Nazi, but the Nazis took control of the party, let's just say, or the or the right-wing extremists took control. But, at the same time, the party grew more and more popular, unfortunately, to the point where now in some areas of Germany, like Brandenburg which surrounds Berlin, they have so much support that they're winning elections, local elections. And in terms of Germany overall, if we had a Bundestagswahl, if we were voting for parliament, they could get - I think some surveys say - up to 30%. It's crazy. Like a lot of people are are supporting them or voting for them or planning to vote for them out of protest or different reasons. Obviously not everybody ... not one-third of the population of Germany is right-wing extreme, right? Like it's ... Not everybody who wants to vote for them thinks like that, I would hope, but the party does say these things and mean these things, and that is very scary.

Jae:
[23:46] What do they want?

Manuel:
[23:49] So, they have obviously political aims in lots of different areas of politics, but their main focus is really migration. And they really very much ... I mean, there's so many Nazi ... I mean, so many, yeah, Nazi comparisons that are being drawn these days, because they really basically want to get rid of all the foreigners, or even what they perceive to be foreigners, like even German ... people with a German passport who weren't born here or have the wrong skin color or whatever. And this was known, like this is not new, that large parts of this party think like this and publicly say these things, but the event that really kind of shook everybody up was something that happened late last year that was covered and reported about by a group of reporters. And the AfD, and also people from companies and also from the right wing part of the CDU, the regular mainstream conservative party, met in a house. They had a secret meeting, like they rented a big hotel and had a secret meeting where they created a kind of "Master Plan" for Germany, that's what they called it. So many aspects of this are reminiscent of the Wannsee conference where the Nazis planned what to do with all the Jews and things like that. And they flat-out talked about once they're in power they want to get rid of ... like the the word they're using is "remigration", which technically or previously is a just a neutral term like if if you migrate to Germany and then you migrate back to the states out of your free will because you just decide: I want to go back, that's what would would be called remigration.

[26:02] But they're using this as a euphemism, because they don't want to ... you know, they want to appear normal and educated and things like that so that's what they're calling it, but basically they they discussed how can we get rid of people. And parts of what they discussed was: Okay, so obviously we might not be able to deport people with a German passport, but how can we make life so hard for people here, how can we create a climate so that people will voluntarily like leave? So just horrendous, horrific. Just really, history-repeating-itself thing there going on. And when that report came out ... it took a little while, like the report came out - and Correctiv is the is the group that that reported on it, correctiv.org - and things didn't change right away. But then like a week or two in, like all of this kind of sunk in, and people really started taking to the streets and organizing demonstrations. And there have been ongoing demonstrations almost every day in different cities and all over Germany from every part of society, like really, across all the other parties, the democratic parties, and all parts of society against racism, against the AfD. And that's basically what's been happening. How did you perceive all of this from your vantage point?

Jae:
[27:47] Kind of slowly, I would say. This is one of the topic points of like getting involved in politics as a foreigner, for me was quite different. Fortunately I tried to escape the far right type of vibe and it seems to be everywhere actually these days. [Yeah.] Very true, like there's a lot of far right movements going on now. France is crazy right now. [Mm-hmm.] What's going on there? Just saying. But I didn't really perceive it as much, it didn't really hit me. There was this aspect that I'm now learning is probably the best aspect to have, but it's like: Okay, this is not my country, I can't really ... I don't have a say in any of it. But, I mean, one, I think you should still be educated about where you live, and two, I think my partner went on a march, other people were asking me about going like to demos, and I'm like: No. I don't really know why. But the more I sit, the more I read about this. I'm like: Okay, I mean, if I want to stay here, I might want to go try to at least present myself. And now touching it, it is a bit scary, because I've already ... before this, I've already experienced a lot of racism here. [Yeah.] A lot of it. Like a lot of it. I've never experienced so much racism. And now there's the fear that that might increase, so the fear that this might like grow bigger, bigger. It doesn't seem like they're going to be backing down anytime soon, so I think it is really good for me to at least be educated, at least be aware of what's going on I do have the privilege of always going back if I need to, but I don't even want to think about that because [No, no.] if it gets to that point that's really scary.

Manuel:
[29:42] I mean, my hope would be ... because the question is always: What do these demonstrations do? It's just people going to the streets, holding up signs, yelling. Like what does that change, right? But my hope would be that it does change something, because you won't get rid of the Nazis. Like the people ... the Nazis have, in a way, always been around and you can't ... You know, we're going to have Nazis in the future. But this trend that they start dominating a party and then people, a large part of the population, feels comfortable voting for this party, that, I think, has to do with a climate that we allowed to happen, where that's okay, like where you're not socially reprimanded, and where many people don't even think it through. Like they just want to show it for whatever reason, they're really mad at the government because of inflation, or because their industry or their job has suffered recently, and they want to show it to the people at the top. They want to show it to the government, and so they're voting out of protest. At least that's what you always hear. And I hope that these demonstrations show, and make people think like: Hey, voting for this party has real consequences. And most people really are against it to the point where they will go to demonstration on a Sunday, and maybe my neighbor is going, and so I really hope that, you know, we can beat the Nazis back into the corner where they belong, where they don't ... where they don't have the gumption to do a meeting like that or to speak out or ... [Yeah.] So I think that's the hope: that some of these people who may be voted for the party in the past, kind of rethink their decision [Yeah.] seeing how most of the country is really concerned about this and really doesn't want this to be Germany.

Jae:
[32:04] And what are the elections looking like? Like are there any upcoming elections for Germany where this like would really intensify?

Manuel:
[32:16] Yeah, there's always local elections, obviously, on different times. Berlin actually has to repeat some of the last ...

Jae:
[32:25] Yeah, wasn't there a whole thing with like ...

Manuel:
[32:27] Yeah, because of the chaos like two years ago. But the next federal elections should be in 2025, because the last one was in 2021 in September. And yeah, back then, AfD, Alternative für Deutschland, Alternative for Germany - that's their their name - got around 10% [Mm-hmm.] which is already crazy, but ... and most of it in ... they get a lot of high results in the former Eastern Germany. And there's economic reasons and things like that, there's a lot of unemployment, people feel disenfranchised. But from what I've read, if the elections were today, they could get between 25% and 30%.

Jae:
[33:23] Which is crazy.

Manuel:
[33:24] Which is crazy. And so I hope that these demonstrations keep happening, that people don't start feeling like: Hey, I went to one, so I did my job, and like: Let's go back to regular programming, but that kind of the pressure stays, you know [Yeah.] and people just really say like: Enough, like: We cannot accept this, and that in 2025, they don't get 30%. [Yeah.] They will get their 10% again. Like they're not ... the party will stay with us. Except - that's another big debate - there is actually a lot of discussion around: Should this party be prohibited? [Mm-hmm.] Because not only do they have these, these ... [Ideals?] Yeah, these racist ideals, but a lot of the things that they are saying publicly is unconstitutional, so it's ... basically they've made it very clear that if they had power they would change the constitution such that we're not a democracy anymore, basically.

Jae:
[34:33] Mm-hmm.

Manuel:
[34:34] And that is unconstitutional. Hitler was elected democratically, but then used the system from the inside to make himself the dictator that he was. And that shouldn't be possible, and so there's a discussion: Hey do we ... should we prohibit this this party before it gets too big to where you can't ... And one of the big arguments against that, is people saying they're already too big. Like you can't prohibit a party that almost 30% of the population would vote for, because then these people don't have a party to vote for anymore. But that's not a good argument anymore because that's not true. There's other parties that they can then vote for, they have enough ... Germany does have more than two parties, also new parties can found the ... But, you know, you have to play with the rules. Like you can't have a party and say: Okay, but we're not going to respect the democratic system that we have. And so I think we should at least look into that.

Jae:
[35:44] Yeah. It's very interesting stuff. And I've never been one for getting into politics, because I was always overwhelmed. The stuff that goes on in America was always just very overwhelming and depressing for me. But then when you look around the world, it seems like every place ...

Manuel:
[36:04] I know. And Trump might get real.

Jae:
[36:07] Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's a whole thing of like ... Oh my gosh, I'm like lucky, I'm like ... Aargh! That is like a second a coming of [Of something.] Yeah, which ... and that's why I also can, I think, empathize with the situation that's happening here, because far right movements are becoming more big. That was our big problem in America, and now it's a big problem here, it's a big problem in France, it's a big problem in a lot of countries at this moment. And I think it is something valuable to educate yourself on it, because it does - whether or not you have the right to vote - it does impact you, especially if you live here. Like this impact, this is literally, I am literally considered one of the people that they will like to remigrate if they had the option to.

Manuel:
[37:00] Remigrate. [Remigrate.] In parentheses. Yeah.

Jae:
[37:02] If they had the option. But it is really kind of like crazy that so many people actually support these things. But then also it's not crazy, because it's not like these people ever went away. People just become more silent until someone gives them a voice to then have their ... Like the framework is the same anywhere you go.

Manuel:
[37:29] Right, right. But I really do believe that like obviously you have to try that as few people as possible even lose their way and and become part of these groups and ideologies, but also it just has to be societally unacceptable [Yeah.] to say anything close to that. Or, you know, like the racist encounters that you had in Berlin, like why isn't the police right there, right then? And, like, you know, like, I really think ... obviously, I'm not a law-and-order type of person, but I really think you don't ... you know, you can't have Nazis just [Just walking round, yeah.] do their thing. You need to kill the problem at the root. [Yeah.] No, like it's ... but ... [Yeah.] it feels like we're moving away from that. It feels like it's becoming okay to say things that really previously weren't ... [Should not be okay.] Yes. [Yeah.] And so.

Jae:
[38:36] So 2024 is going to be very, very exciting and very, very,very interesting. I think there's a lot of optimism, but I think there's also a lot of aspects of education, but also like utilizing your voice and presence. I think that's something that I would probably like to do this year as well, is utilize my voice and my presence and not just be on the sidelines reading all the news.

Manuel:
[39:04] Exactly. In the end, it's up to us.

politics

The Anti-Racism-Protests and the AfD